New LOAs out.
 

Check your emails.

Let the games begin

This is a dud. What was the point of any negotiations if we were just going to cave in the end for an extra 5 flows for a few months. To go from the AIP to this is extremely disappointing. At least we will all be under appreciated by the company for 2.5 months less I guess.

With the lack of flows next month it’s pretty much a wash.

FOs made out about even, Junior Captains get a small raise, Lifers get the most as they likely deserve at this point. Reserve enhancements in the wind, retro pay short changed, and a temporary flow increase assuming AA hires. Man, without the Union, the pilot group could have just accepted the rates that AAG offered on day one and made out better than this. Oh and the non-union PSIs get a raise. Sweet

PSA still making more than us hourly. A 4 year Envoy CA for example will make $6.46 less per hour. Something else PSA got that we didn’t:

All credit on a pilot's schedule between 75 and 85 hours paid at 125%
All credit on a pilot's schedule above 85 hours paid at 150%

Oh and the retro pay got fleeced as well. Went from May 15th to June 1st...unless it’s cheaper for the Company to just give you 15-35 hours of pay.

So glad we held out for months, it really paid off.

Am i understanding this correctly?
Im probably thinking to much into this.
For FO’s

New hire - 1 YOS = $50.21
1 YOS - 2 YOS = $50.21
Then on the day you have been with company for 2 years it goes to $51.19

Kinda confusing for a new hire to be paid at 1 YOS rate when they havent been with the company for a year.

Yes not as confusing as getting paid year 3,4,5 then back to 3 when upgrading.

Hahaha true! Thanks for the conf.

Can anyone post it for those of us that don’t have access to it at the moment?

Vote out all yes voters

Glad we all waited so long for this turd.

Part of a post I made from another thread. Worth putting here in my opinion.

“On another note, I am highly disappointed with the union and their acceptance of this offer without putting it to a vote. You all should contact your reps and let them know you expect them to do just that.

If they don’t, I’m sure their decision can be legally challenged by the membership. Just like Envoy management didn’t have authorization from AA on the AIP, it sounds as if the union doesn’t have our authorization on this, which more than meets the threshold of “substantial changes” to the Agreement.

This is a total surrender and a benefit to the few, to the detriment of the many, yet again. Shameful, just shameful, and embarrassing.

“Company agrees to discuss reserve rules”. Utterly and completely shameful.

Good luck with that.”

Not even worth reading. The union here is shameful and feckless.

What’s all this crap about if they can’t pay us retro pay from June 1 they will pay us 20hours for line holders and 15 hours for reserve...

...literally makes no sense. I’m sure it isn’t to our advantage

Deceptive Captain Pay to a new hire
 

With pay bands still intact (section 3.B.), no captain will ever get top pay (i.e. 175 / LRJ / Pay Band C) until they’re about a year or so out from flow.

Anyone considering Envoy needs to know when they upgrade, regardless of equipment, they’ll only get 145 / SRJ CA pay currently until they’re about a year and a half (at best) away from flow.

Do you get to vote on it or is it a done deal for you guys?

The year is true now but as the flow slows it will take someone longer than a year from getting on large RJ rates to flow so at least there's that?

It's already been signed behind closed doors by the union

I actually like the pay the banding concept in practice (blended would be better). I do hate it that APC shows the rates incorrectly such that even people on property that do not really pay attention to the contract assume APC is correct.

:mad:

Thank goodness, you bunch might have voted down a no concessions pay raise.

At first, I read it as "god damn it, we're not even getting back pay to June 1". Then a little quick math, I think it's in the company's best interest to backpay to June 1 rather than pay those costs... if I read it correctly.

:mad:

Correct. So, any new hire today could expect to stay on SRJ CA pay rates for 7+ years.

What is SRJ vs LRJ?

Small, large. Pay band B vs C

Small RJ (SRJ) Large RJ (LRJ)

Which is deceptive as Envoy CA pay is based purely on seniority, regardless what equipment you fly.

PSA has pay blending because all of their pilots can fly the large and small RJs (same type rating). Also about 1/4 of their fleet is the small RJ, while 2/3 of our fleet is the small RJ.

Also, APC does talk about the pay banding in the pay notes. From the website:

"Envoy uses seniority-based pay banding for captains regardless of actual aircraft flown (i.e. E175 pay band, CRJ pay band, EMB pay band). The size of the pay band is determined by the staffing required for the number of aircraft within the band. "

That sucks. Really should have gone to a pilot vote with that significant of a change.

We did take concessions technically... Retention bonus being taken to me sounds like a concession... Rip...

Not a concession. Company has had the right to pull it with 30 days notice. They didn't need to ask anybody

Why would anyone vote yes to getting paid less than the other two WO? Especially after the AIP mess. We need new leadership

Why would you like it? The only people it benefits is junior CA’s who couldn’t imagine themselves having to fly the 145. No one who says they like pay banding would tolerate this same scheme at mainline. It only benefits the company by saving them on training cycles.

You can thank alpa for that too. Mec gave it to them and we got nothing in return other than a screw job.

But would they have pulled it if it wasn't for this "agreement" that was a recruiting tool, they probably wouldn't have been able to keep ppl coming in the doors without the agreement and getting rid of the bonus...

I don't know what to tell you guys, you now have contractual rates vs. company discresstion bonus. Sorry

On one hand, there's this. Contractual rates beat discretionary bonuses.

On the other hand, that's something for the pilot group to decide, not the MEC.

When 9E made the switch from bonuses to pay rates, as badly as our MEC wanted the change, the 9E pilot group got to vote on it first.

Ok and that's fair, but I don't go calling something a raise when you're not actually getting more money. Doing some rough math, all they're doing is moving $20k from a bonus to hourly pay, and then calling it industry leading pay. No it's pay enhancing. Some win, some lose, but overall, it's just that contractual pay now instead of bonus pay. Again not a raise when you do the math.

That's why I said some win some lose, I factored in min guarantee only. I realize you now get more in your 401k. We have pilots that don't pick up OT, they have families and want to be home as much as possible. Some guys don't get juniormanned, deadhead pay means squat if you're reserve. I could keep going. Again this does help some. But others it doesn't. So it's almost a wash. It's a pay enhancement. Not a raise.

The retention bonus was a joke. You wouldn't even see the first one until about 15-16 months in. And most FOs don't even get all of them before upgrading. On top of that having to wait until tax time to get back some of the witholdings on the bonuses. And as previously stated the company could get rid of them at any time. As well, all current FOs got the 20k signing bonus on day 1 that is now gone.

If you want to say this deal is unfair compared to the original AIP I agree. But I don't understand how anyone thought our pay scale and bonus restructures would be any different than PSA/Piedmonts, which is the entire reason why the union wanted things such as sick time payout, more days off on reserve, etc in lieu of PSA having a higher blended rate.

It seems like a lot of people on here have a poor understanding of our pay banding vs PSAs blended scale.

Not up to the pilot group or the MEC. At company's discresstion.

Should've been a pilot vote. Really would like for the MEC to tell the company that they exceeded their authority.