Envoy vs Sun Country
01-04-2020 | 03:00 PM
#11
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
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From: Whale FO
If the "stay" at whatever company, while enroute to the majors, is expected to be 12-18 months to freshen currency and check the 121 box, would it be better to not commute, and work for peanuts, at Envoy (DFW base in theory), or commute, make more, but crash pad, commute related stress, etc, for Sun Country.
again, the assumption is 12-18 month "temporary stay"
again, the assumption is 12-18 month "temporary stay"
Pretty much exactly the same pay rate. Stay 12 months and keep half the bonus and you might make more year 1 at Envoy.
01-04-2020 | 03:02 PM
#12
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Joined: May 2019
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If the "stay" at whatever company, while enroute to the majors, is expected to be 12-18 months to freshen currency and check the 121 box, would it be better to not commute, and work for peanuts, at Envoy (DFW base in theory), or commute, make more, but crash pad, commute related stress, etc, for Sun Country.
again, the assumption is 12-18 month "temporary stay"
again, the assumption is 12-18 month "temporary stay"
01-04-2020 | 03:09 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2019
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Depends on what your risk tolerance is. If you have a solid resume, you’d hope for a short stint. But what if for whatever reason that 12 months turns into 3 years? 5 years? Indefinitely? In that case I’d either want to live in base or at least work somewhere with a commutable schedule.
He also stated he can drive to DFW. So if nobody calls him in 5 years, he is a Captain at Envoy making ? probably cracking 100K and driving to work, versus ??? at Sun Country and commuting. Maybe as a local resident he can get involved in the Envoy safety program, get involved in the training department, etc stuff.
Now, if he will make 300K at Sun Country at Year 5, sure I might decide that commuting is OK.
Just participating in this thread, I do not claim any expertise either way. Thank you for everyones perspective
01-04-2020 | 04:27 PM
#16
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Thoughts on Envoy vs Sun Country
Currently i'm about a 3 hour drive from DFW (but have regional service to DFW). I have offers from ExpressJet, Skywest, Envoy, Atlas (maybe ABX and ATI with pending interviews), and Sun Country.
For now a commute is inevitable for all...but Envoy could get me closest to home during training. So really the question I have is; how long should it take to have DFW basing--hope for DFW out of training and if not go get the 73 type and fly for Sun Country for awhile?? 76 or 74 type at the ACMI's? But, Atlas' $1600/mo training pay is a joke and the other ACMI's 16/17 on 13/14 off doesn't present the best QoL...but is it better or worse than regional flying (I know many factors influence this for each of us personally though).
I have competitive numbers for the majors (4000 TT/2000 PIC military flying, clean background, and been available for the last 2 months) but just can't seem to find the phone ringing with one of them on the other end (apps only been in 2-4 months though)). I read a lot how my background shouldn't need more than a touch and go somewhere outside of the majors...or if at all, but it is what it is and it comes down to this; the last paycheck came at the end of last month with the flight hours ~5 months ago...so I need a paycheck, recency and ready to start getting some 121 experience!
TIA for ideas and opinions...open to it all.
Currently i'm about a 3 hour drive from DFW (but have regional service to DFW). I have offers from ExpressJet, Skywest, Envoy, Atlas (maybe ABX and ATI with pending interviews), and Sun Country.
For now a commute is inevitable for all...but Envoy could get me closest to home during training. So really the question I have is; how long should it take to have DFW basing--hope for DFW out of training and if not go get the 73 type and fly for Sun Country for awhile?? 76 or 74 type at the ACMI's? But, Atlas' $1600/mo training pay is a joke and the other ACMI's 16/17 on 13/14 off doesn't present the best QoL...but is it better or worse than regional flying (I know many factors influence this for each of us personally though).
I have competitive numbers for the majors (4000 TT/2000 PIC military flying, clean background, and been available for the last 2 months) but just can't seem to find the phone ringing with one of them on the other end (apps only been in 2-4 months though)). I read a lot how my background shouldn't need more than a touch and go somewhere outside of the majors...or if at all, but it is what it is and it comes down to this; the last paycheck came at the end of last month with the flight hours ~5 months ago...so I need a paycheck, recency and ready to start getting some 121 experience!
TIA for ideas and opinions...open to it all.
Have you tried Spirit? With your times and military you should be hirable there and they have a DFW base too
01-04-2020 | 05:03 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2017
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If any of the PIC time is C-17, up to 500 hours counts towards 121 upgrade. That could be a good thing, but if your record is otherwise clean, you won’t be anywhere long enough for it to matter.
That being said, a three hour drive to DFW is just far enough to make Envoy’s reserve rules hell, especially if you do end up with an early upgrade. Also, look at where Envoy new hires have been going. 145 NY or 175 ORD. Being relatively young and not a cadet means not seeing DFW anytime soon, so that negates the DFW benefit.
Look at Mesa and Skywest. Both have DFW bases and you can choose the CRJ which makes DFW easily attainable. New hire base for Mesa and probably within two months of finishing training with SKW.
That being said, a three hour drive to DFW is just far enough to make Envoy’s reserve rules hell, especially if you do end up with an early upgrade. Also, look at where Envoy new hires have been going. 145 NY or 175 ORD. Being relatively young and not a cadet means not seeing DFW anytime soon, so that negates the DFW benefit.
Look at Mesa and Skywest. Both have DFW bases and you can choose the CRJ which makes DFW easily attainable. New hire base for Mesa and probably within two months of finishing training with SKW.
01-04-2020 | 05:25 PM
#19
Thread Starter
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 21
Likes: 2
If any of the PIC time is C-17, up to 500 hours counts towards 121 upgrade. That could be a good thing, but if your record is otherwise clean, you won’t be anywhere long enough for it to matter.
That being said, a three hour drive to DFW is just far enough to make Envoy’s reserve rules hell, especially if you do end up with an early upgrade. Also, look at where Envoy new hires have been going. 145 NY or 175 ORD. Being relatively young and not a cadet means not seeing DFW anytime soon, so that negates the DFW benefit.
Look at Mesa and Skywest. Both have DFW bases and you can choose the CRJ which makes DFW easily attainable. New hire base for Mesa and probably within two months of finishing training with SKW.
That being said, a three hour drive to DFW is just far enough to make Envoy’s reserve rules hell, especially if you do end up with an early upgrade. Also, look at where Envoy new hires have been going. 145 NY or 175 ORD. Being relatively young and not a cadet means not seeing DFW anytime soon, so that negates the DFW benefit.
Look at Mesa and Skywest. Both have DFW bases and you can choose the CRJ which makes DFW easily attainable. New hire base for Mesa and probably within two months of finishing training with SKW.
You seem to be confirming what i'm mostly after...if i'm lucky and this is just a brief employment opportunity, is DFW (for any carrier) even a possibility in that window (hopefully < 6 months)? If not, what is likely to be the least bitter introductory experience to 121 flying? Think I had a buddy take a good 7-8 months to get to DFW with SKW, can't remember for sure though. Have not submitted to Mesa.
01-05-2020 | 07:34 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
The guy needs a decent QOL and paycheck while he checks a few more boxes. A 3 hour drive to DFW, then commuting to NYC or ORD to fly for the most abusive regional management in the FFD industry is much much worse QOL than going to Sun Country, or even to the ACMI if he can get it.
Last edited by tomgoodman; 01-05-2020 at 08:22 AM. Reason: Name-calling
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