Hiring question
 

I need to get some clarification on this but how hard would it be to get hired by Envoy once you completed all your ratings and the 1500 required hours WITHOUT holding any degrees?

What is the realistic time you would spend on the flow thru program before getting upgraded to the major airline?

Thank you

It would be quicker to get the degree to be honest. Some will come on and say 5 years for flow but they can’t show any math or hard figures to back it up. Union says 9-10 years for a new hire, think the company is officially saying 6 years right now. Truth is probably somewhere in between.

Why Envoy? Ever shoot a shotgun? One should apply everywhere they ‘may’ want to work. When offered a job, then consider options.

With hours you can get hired somewhere. I’d still try to work towards a degree, don’t put all the eggs in the ‘flow’ basket.

Getting a degree in something else that you are interested in is almost always a good idea. But definitely a long term goal and hard to do while flying.

my goal is to get a at least an associate but only after I start working for a regional. I just wouldnt have enough time or money to do it during my flight training. I'm just concerned I dont get hired by regionals without one and envoy is on top of my list due to their bases and the flow program they have. PSA is probably option 2

Realistically you would be looking at about 6 years to flow from date of hire. Are you looking at the pipeline CFI program?

^wrong
8.5-9 yr flow for new hires right now. We’re no where near the total pilot group number for the post 2016 hires to flow at 6 years. Go somewhere else.

I am no fan of thkooj. Not one bit. He’s wrong basically daily. But 8.5-9 isn’t accurate either. That projection assumes zero attrition outside the flow. The math isn’t hard to do on your own. It’s literally based on 20/month to your seniority number. It assumes Nobody leaves for delta, United, spirit, Southwest ACMI or just flat out leaves the industry or gets fired.

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The union released numbers and it's nothing special. About 4 per month moving on/up outside flow

4 per month? Maybe you need to check your math? 48 a year? :)

20 a month all in, but I think he's talking the big 5

I’m talking for ANY reason.

559-322=237/12 = 20/mo

If you really think people moving over to Mesa and compass should count then yeah feel free to add those in. I'm guessing not many senior captains making those moves.

there were 20 in ORD alone last month....I’m willing to bed we lose 150 sub 1500 seniority number outside the flow in the next 12 months

Also good to point out these numbers from the union are 2019. This was when the AIP debacle hit and the delayed pay raises. It sounds like, coming from various union members, that attrition outside of flow has increased greatly recently. Should be a big year for movement.

Well since I wouldn't be working for regionals anytime before 2022 dont you think that things will speed up even more since theres so many more retirements coming up in the next 10+ years. I'm ok with doing 5 to 7 years at the regionals more than that would be a bit too much.

You should go fly the 175 at Skywest.

Does skywest have a flow program?

Their pilots have a higher probability getting hired OTS.

Yea but you need a degree to do that. Skywest it I'm not mistaken also serves for Alaska and I guess with with Alaska you dont need a degree to get hired.

The reason most people stay at Envoy and in the WO’s that the training is not the best so they have higher failure rates and therefore are stuck until they flow. You will get better training, QOL and pay at SkyWest, they also are affiliated with more legacies, your chances getting hired OTS are quadrupled.

You have to read a little deeper. The whole contention here is that AA is slated to hire something like 40-50% more this year, yet flow is decreasing by one third. In the distant past it has been as high as nearly two thirds of AA hires were Envoy, not even counting PSA and Piedmont, flow. This year Envoy flow will barely be 12-15% of AA hires.

Bottom line is unless AA and Envoy up flow numbers Envoy will be hiring many more than flowing. That means the only way for flow time to decrease is through MASSIVE outside attrition.

It is simple math. Every thing else is just smoke and mirrors KoolAid colored BS rhetoric.

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

interesting..... will look into once my time comes up. Thanks for the info 👍🏻

While I certainly agree with nearly all you say, including that Envoy training could be better, I don’t know that failure rates are especially high. If you don’t think you are ready or the instructor doesn’t, I don’t think it is difficult to get some extra time. Envoy will certainly work with you if you are putting in the effort.

867-5309 .

I dont think its realy more likely to get hired out of Skywest over any other regional. Looking at the APC profile if they have over 5000 pilots that just means they will keep showing up in newhire classes everywhere, but that does not mean that the chance for an individual to get hired is any better. Whats on the resume/job app matters more.

That you, Jenny?

This is ridiculous

Oh is it? The union’s attrition table proves and shows 53 total in 2019 going to better places besides the flow. That is an average of 4 plus per month.
Keep on drinking the cool aid son!

I agree wholeheartedly inevitable. The reason people stay at the Voy is because they don't want to give up their AA seat. This whole "attrition outside the flow" is a bogus argument here. The numbers are WAY smaller than what the detractors here are posting. I wonder how many of these detractors are really Envoy pilots. And of those, how many are just disgruntled lifers who CHOSE not to flow. I can tell you that the guys hired directly from the pipeline program, TO A MAN, do NOT think this way. They are humble and confident at the same time while very grateful for the opportunity to be at American.

You are too funny man. I actually look forward to your posts now, comedy at its best.

I'm starting to think he's doing a 'colbert report'esk satirical character.

Ahh...there he is. Good ole, “Chill bruh, you’re already an American Airlines Pilot.” I’ll remember that as The Envoy calls me at 0400 to come sit at the airport for 8 hours.:cool:

so do you want to be called no takeoff laps or no take of flaps?

I agree. Ex-CPZ here and he’s become a living, breathing meme. I check your forums just to find his posts. Y’all know how us Compass folk love our memes. The gift that keeps on giving.

One thing I dont understand is that once you're in the flow is there a way to check where you stand like a list or something to gauge when your time is coming up?

People below you less 190 lifers divided by 20 will give you estimated time in months...
attrition - it depends, inside 1000 seniority it is about 1.7 per month extra, so you can use 23-24 if you want to count attrition...
(2380-190)/24=91months with being optimistic (7.6 years)

great explanation. Thanks