his screen name is a play on mine, and I used to be a really large guy, so he puts the big guy on his profile pic.
He’s got Cujo envy.

Although I see your point, I do agree that ALL flying should be mainline, they should have never allowed a "Class B" industry to be created. I know is wishful thinking on my part, but if all flyings were to go to mainline, and all regional be eliminated, in the long run it would benefit all pilots, even though it might hurt at the beginning. At least that would put an end to the Fee per departure scam.

Still no point in continuing to reply to or mention him. Just a circle j**k.

Temporarily slowed? Hiring *and of course, flow* won't be a thing for years. Years sure seems like a long temporary.

Try 8 years.

There have been plenty of opportunities to make a single carrier petition, either by Envoy to AA or all 3 WOs to AA. My best guess as to why it hasn't happened is because ALPA would lose 5,000 members to APA. It would be the best thing to happen to the industry in forever, but ALPA doesn't seem to be going for it.

Tyrion in for the Bingo....
not only will they not go for it, the ALPA lawyers immediately start telling you why it won’t work, rather than look for reasons why it would....
ask me how I know. Same lawyers are still there. Job security.

As you bantering about Flow time....think of the fact that this is worse then 9/11.... remember what that did to flow.. you may want a second option in mind.. FedEX/SWA. Ect...for when hiring starts back up..

I have said it before and will say it again, ALPA is not here for our benefit. Sure, we do get "some" benefits from them, but we are just a number that feeds money up the ranks. Our regional unions are weak and we dont get any of the high dollar legal help like say, Delta would get. If ALPA really was looking out for us, they would either be trying to flip APA to ALPA or encouraging us to go single carrier.

They have been courting the APA for years. The dues reduction was to attract APA. They’ve been lending services to APA at below cost trying to court them into ALPA. Having worked with both unions on different issues and watching their public profiles, APA would be stupid to the umpteenth degree to go with ALPA.

ALPA does care whether AA dumps its commuters. They did that in the past with Eagle just like Delta did wit Comair and ASA. You are at the mercy of the Majors. They make all the decisions.

Is that what you tell your Gf or spouse and family too? They must be so confused. They see all the American logos on you but don’t see the big house and the Porsche yet. gonna be a long 10 years.

Thekhooj is at AA now, but most likely soon to get a dose of reality come Oct.

I have no idea why it’s relevant to this discussion but the WO operations are not AA pilots. Anyone at either company that thinks otherwise is wrong. American Holdings put in place a preferential hiring program to staff the WO. The program has nothing to do with staffing AA and everything to do with keeping the trenches full of C scale pilots.

This reality does have a place in the flow back discussion however...

It would also be beneficial for the young blood hired during the post 2010 boom to look at how well WO operations faired during previous downturns. I see lots of posts about how WO pilots expect there to be deep cuts at non WO carriers and hope it will work out that WO cuts will be less drastic. I think they have that 180 out. I see the opposite. In fact I’ll be very surprised if there are still four carriers at American holdings by the end of next summer.

Well, when PSA gets stapled to the bottom of Piedmont, there will only be three carriers.

AAL
PSA
PDT
ENV
that's 4 - is that what you meant?

Envoy is the 4th one. ENY. Or even EGF. But not ENV.

My gut feeling is there will be only one AA WO when the dust settles. I don’t think it will be Piedmont. Leaning towards PSA and Piedmont both going away and there will not be any merger. Just shut downs and asset sales.

Just how I feel about it looking around now and thinking back to past slow downs. It will sure be an interesting time ahead of us all. Hopefully I’m very wrong.

Thread creep was real here. Thanks for the ride.

The 175 is the newest fleet - it survives
Approx ages of the CRJ's??

Dude. It’s a temporary pause. Prob not 10 years.

Hmmmmm. While I think it will start back up again I really think this has added a few years to it. With the most recent flow being at 7 years, a ten year flow for a recent hire could be well above 10 years. Considering a recent new hire was already at 9 years, 10+ is realistic.

If flow is not currently happening, with no definite return date, it is infinitely paused. And every day goes by is an increase.

I meant the pause in flow was temporary. Flow will resume before 10 years. What it’ll be we don’t know.

My personal thought for a long time is that PSA and Piedmont will end up combined. Several reasons. Granted, I don’t know anything about the specifics, but they were both US Air cultured feed. They already share some common mx locations. But the big reason is relative size. I think AAG will want to keep the two WOs to play the whipsaw and PSA and Piedmont together are closer in size to the ‘Voy than than any other combination being equally sized.

Of course, with flying at only 10%, it would be very easy for AAG to cut ANY of its feed to what they want. There is already a big axe poised to fall. They just have to decide where to or if they put a tourniquet to stop the bleeding when they start hacking. But I do believe the blood and pain are yet to come.

I think Envoy gets shut down because everyone hates you

;)

Correct. It's a temporary pause and it is NOT 10 years. I've said before that this could slow the flow by a few months beyond what you were originally planned for but most likely, very, very little change.

So are these Saturn months or Venus months?

Trying to figure out which planet you’re from.

So when AA furloughs you in October, the flow keeps moving anyway?

how does that happen? If AA doesn’t hire for a year how does that not add, at the minimum, at least one year to a projected flow time?

Leprechauns and Unicorns.

Lets throw in a fold in the space time continuum and a flux capacitor charged to 1.21 jiggawatts.

I’m in, can we just skip ahead to like 2023?

I’m sure THKoolAid’s GF is just as imaginary as all his flow facts. And IF he did have a GF, he would try real hard to get her to believe the distance he measures between his thumb and index finger is a foot.

Nah, he’s American, remember? Lol

Back to the subject - did any envoy employee receive this memo?

There was an email that said something close to this. The language was a little less definitive, but generally it said the same as the title of this thread.

Yes I have seen it. Believe the statement was that they are suspending operations until at least June 7th or some date near there. It was also discussed on a recent P2P call.

Where are you buying your Kool Aid mix from?? That stuff seems top shelf for what you are coming up with right now... not an envoy guy but you're just saying things without even backing it up... Let me guess you think and say you fly for American when people ask?

The major problem with your theory is that it is not a preferential hiring program. Delta and United have preferential hiring programs. AA has a direct seniority based system that is - for convenience - called "flow." Now, the ENY/PDT/PSA interview is itself the AA interview. Every pilot hired in seniority order can transfer to AA when their seniority will hold a slot at AA. This is very much like you would bid a new base, or new equipment by seniority. Same thing. I know for a fact that the AAG legal department was very concerned about the newer "flow" program creating an extremely valid argument supporting single carrier. They still are, which is why they have slowly throttled the flow/transfer from it's original 60% of all new AA new hires down to about 35% of all AA new hires.

While they are definitely not being paid as AA pilots, or under the work rules of AA pilots.... there is a legal argument to be made that they should be as a single carrier. However, I would advise the PSA/ENY/PDT guys not to pursue that at this time. While it would be good for the industry to take the regional flying back to mainline; it would guarantee that almost every PSA/PDT/ENY pilot gets furloughed in October as the APA guys would love to have 5,000 pilots junior to them right now.