not going to lie, it can be a depressing industry to work in.

Rucker is hiring like crazy. Just saying. It is what it is but year 1 is about to be over 100k with a good schedule, weekends/all holidays/donsas off. Making more now than as a 5 year captain. If one were to take the VLOA and have this gig, good coin. Not every rtp guys choice but was nice to get. Rotor jobs are out there.

I know this is far out of the question right now, but how would these 5 year voluntary furloughs affect hiring at Envoy? Would all of those people have to be recalled first before a single person is hired on?

And what does it mean after 1 year, we can request to come back with a 30 day notice? We can just tell them we are coming coming back after 1 year, no questions asked? Even if they are not hiring?

Serious question for all you RTP guys. Are all of you planning to take this 5 year LOA? I'm asking because from everyone of your posts it is very evident that Envoy/American is just a way station for you and you really aren't interested in being here.

Seriously, no disrespect here but I've observed many, many in the training cycle and by far, for whatever reason, you guys struggle the most. The large majority of you get through but I believe it's the pipeline training program the cadets come from that has them ready on the first day of training. I'm not discounting your military service, I appreciate it as I have a military background myself. However, in the end in addition to the training problems, it seems that you really just aren't interested in being here. Thus my question on this possible opportunity for you to get back into something that obviously pays well and may be more suited to your comfort zone.

Anyone who engages on this post is just giving him what he wants. Don’t feed the troll.

Agreed. I almost took the bait, but not this time. He is almost making it too easy now.

Offering the LOA gets the company off the hook for unemployment insurance responsibility.
Plenty of oppty's in China I'm thinking in the meantime ;)

I will bite.

It’s not a matter of not wanting to fly and or be an airline pilot. But unlike yourself whose only talent is trolling on Internet forums, most military pilots, especially those who have also flown rotary, have multiple talents and can use those to make a living. Since your promised five year flow has evaporated (not that it was ever going to be anyway), it’s better for all if those that can do something else for a while do so and prevent a few of your prized cadets from being furloughed and stuck in momma’s basement without a reason to leave their video games.

So true, well said.......

5 yloa
 

1. I can not stress this enough, seniority and movement at any carrier is everything!

2. AAG wanted to sell Eagle in the past, with the only saving grace being no buyers. Reluctant growth, reluctant investment in employees during the most profitable period in its history.

3. Many of you do not think AAG will shrinking its FFD (starting with it’s WO and least favorite Envoy Air). Many of you are not contemplating that fact that due to scope clause affect will be exercised, AA will shrink and become a much small airline with or w/o CARES ACT II OCT 1. Technically meaning we are not a capitalist society by the way, and that Airlines are now too big to fail GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES (no matter how you look at it). So, AAG will eventually consolidate feed carrier, cut regional feed, or close feed further, since it will be a much smaller airline due to Scope, economy, Covid expansion mutation, Covid vaccine time to developed and vaccinate billions around the world. AA, DL, UAL will be smaller until 2024-2025 (watch for new aircraft delivery delays we’ll past 2023 as indicator).

4. Flow 5-yr LOA? Perfect right? Sure take your 5 yrs LOA for Flowin 3-5yrs... See if there is an Envoy Air Inc to comeback to in 3-4yrs. Sure let’s hope there is a V shape recovery and fellow pilots can come back from leave to completed retaining by summer 2022-2023 at best! Then you can flow in 2024-2025 at best. Also hope there is no other world issues (civil war, terror, collapse of democracy, other pandemic outbreak or mutation, rise of a destabilizing totalitarian government). If you are senior enough, plan on a long term regional career and vote accordingly in one accord.

5. STOP MAKING CAREER DECISIONS BASED ON FLOW! You will be chasing stale cheese in a maze.

6. If you are young and junior, welcome to the consequences of your decision, learn from it. Going forward your creativity, age is your ally.

7. If you are an older person and a junior pilot (with 7-10yrs until retirement), Pray even harder. Do not be picky, this is not Burger King, you can’t have it your way this time if you want to continue flying, get into a ACMI/Cargo: No particular order: Kalitta charters 2, OMNI, ATLAS, ATI, Western Global, AmeriJet, Ameriflight, Empire Airlines, Mountain Air Cargo, etc. or go back to your Corporate flying gig if you can if it has a half decent retirement plan. Now is not the time to live your youthful dreams at a regional airline.

As a military guy don't act like your **** doesn't stink. A lot of RTP guys got their fixed wing ratings from these AA regionals (you're welcome). Many of them also struggled through the 121 training pipeline. A lot of Mil guys also took advantage of the system by dropping orders soon after being hired sometimes for years (conveniently saving their "promised five year flow" spot).

So sorry the promised flow didn't work out for you. But don't be so quick to **** on the cadets. A lot of them were making bottom dollar for AA while you were off using your multiple talents.

-signed a veteran

I had to go back and reread pitchattitude's post to make sure but I didn't think he said anything that warranted that kind of response, particularly given what and who he was replying to.

-signed not a veteran

This is VERY much a two way street. And while I don’t particularly condone dropping orders as soon as one is hired, the company, whether Envoy or any other regional is more than happy to take advantage of those military pilots as well. That is why many regionals jumped on the RTP band wagon. It is very much a give-take. Everything has a cost. Whether it is purely monetary or opportunity cost.

And I wasn’t really bashing on cadets, they just happen to be the focus of THKoolAids perverted focus of affection, who I was rebutting.

-signed probably a pog

Or does civil war reenactment count for you too

Thank you. You get the point.

Okaaaay turd-for-brains, stupid question of the day award goes to you, Kooj. Seriously though, If the RTP guys/gals have an opportunity to make equal or better pay, with greater QOL, why wouldn't they take leave? Not everyone enjoys SJT turns on the heavy and perpetual airport stby.

This virus could easily stay for s very long time. Previous pandemics/endemics lasted centuries. Airlines very well may be non existentent in a few years

This thing could stay forever and even get worse and there will still be some demand for air travel. Probably more the longer it goes on.

This feels like wake & bake posting lol. stick to coffee ace.

oh wow LOL


(filler)

Domino?

/10

Or, maybe his twin brother from another mother?


;)



:D

Why are the terms of the LOU 1 year and not 5? If Envoy mgmt has the capability to maintain travel benefits 1 year, they certainly have the ability to do it for 5.

Let me guess the excuse...AAG wouldn’t allow it? That’s the usual go-to for management

Guessing that being that the actual LOA affords zero travel that this was a compromise to not renegotiating the whole thing.

Most people will either be back at Envoy in a year, or will have new employment that will make them quit and prove that they did so in order to start a new position.

Atlas and ATI aren’t going to be keen on allowing people to come on property while on a leave of absence. You’re keeping an insurance policy in your pocket and they don’t want their investment running out to flow to AA in four years.

Dont you, yourself pay the company insurance while on leave?

Yes, the full amount is due by the pilot, or you could choose to not have it.

“Insurance policy” = eventual mainline job, not health coverage

The insurance policy is the flow to mainline that some will keep in their back pocket if their other move doesn’t work. Go do something else for five years, AA rebounds, come back, flow, profit (if your new carrier doesn’t ask for proof of resignation).

How do you know this?

The last time they offered this, there were a lot of flying opportunities in China and some in Africa. The work conditions were horrible (according to anecdotal accounts), but people made BANK.

I doubt that those opportunities are there right now, but in 6-8 months... who knows.

This epidemic can’t last forever. I would think that as soon as Frontier and Spirit begin hiring again that you will see a mass exodus from the regionals. People won’t wait for flow like before.

I'm glad that you finally agree with me about the length of the flow. Yes, it's 6 years or less while it's going. That has been a fact that many here have denied for the past few years. As soon as things crank back up again you will see the flow in this range. I like how you noticed it in that if XXX carrier hires a furloughed Envoy pilot, said pilot likely would bail at the 4 year mark so they could get back in time for their flow to AA.

Nonsensical troll post... again.

Its pretty par for the course with that guy. His world is imaginary at best.

Your math is still impossible. This has added what, five months, since the last flow to the at least six years those that flowed waited. There is ZERO guarantee that there will EVER be another flow. IF it does happen, you will have to add all that lost time to the numbers of those that were waiting. Even if it happens in FOUR years, add that to the SHORTEST wait folks that were approaching five years, those people are going to be at nine years. The hypothetical flow time will not decrease.

Ifs and nuts, Splooj, i mean Kooj, ifs and nuts.

I don’t agree with anything that you’ve ever said. Your propaganda is only for the fool hearty and would be best for only a few mindless drones who actually listen to you.

The flow could be four years from now for someone who has already spent six years on property. There will never be a pilot who flows in four total years. Ever. I know you drank a lot of Kool Aide though but the last class had an eleven year flow time without attrition. Stagnation is only going to make it actually be eleven years.

I'm sure the light bulb in his crystal ball burnt out that's why he couldn't see the Russians declaring the Rona vaccine today.