That's cute. There isn't a single thing that will be negotiated at mainline that will benefit anyone at Eaglevoy. (Heck, APA probably won't even do a good job of protecting their own.) Plus, if anyone needs a reminder of our management-labor relationship, just go back and search for union commo from last year around failed AIP time.

In other news, 1941 guys at DL get furlough notices next week as announced today. Fun times ahead for this industry.

Envoy NEVER does ANYTHING for the benefit of the employees. They will choose the cost neutral option that gives the employees the least.

I normally find you particularly distasteful but for you, who has gotten none of your "inside" information predictions correct, to offer false hope to those that are looking down a black hole, is just awful. Not only are you wrong, but APA has not, are not and will not lift a finger to help us, so anything going on up there is for your/APA's benefit. Congratulations, you have sunken to an even lower new low.
Exactly. We are not even a consideration for APA unless they are hoping to negotiate some sort of flow back agreement and even then, it would be for their benefit not ours.
They didn't want to incur the training costs of the 175 drivers coming back after this. Still seems odd to me, as they will have to still train all these furloughs eventually. Anyway, Envoy doing anything that resembles something positive for us is simply a cloak and dagger game.
Exactly.

He was at rock bottom then found the door that leads to rock bottoms basement.
He’ll probably spin it to say that envoy pilots have the pleasure of learning something from mainline pilots if they get a back flow. Or some other flame retardant BS.

Nope. APA won't even protect its own pilots unless they are senior wide body types. Ask anyone you know over here at AA what's been going on lately. It's not pretty, and we are all extremely angry at APA. So with that being said, they don't even know who Envoy is. Don't expect any life lines from them. And no, there is nothing going on behind the scenes here at AA that will magically save us, let alone the wholly owned regionals.

Everyone from Parker on down is simply waiting/hoping for Cares 2. Otherwise it'll be a bloodbath. Thanks, APA.

Is that crap on a stick LOA over at AA limited to the 2500 with WARN letters, or could they potentially WARN more pilots and put even more on zero time/part time lines eventually?


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OK. AAG just announced furloughs of 19,000 personnel. Face it it’s time for you to SHUT UP, crawl back into your make believe world and quit posting BLATANT LIES.

Kooj, it's time to retire that screen name. Your prediction fell apart less than a day later, you have no credibility.

They can send out as many more warn letters as they want. For now it's the original 2500 that got shafted by APA with no lube. But now that the genie is out of the bottle and ZTLs have been unleashed, AA will use that as a starting point.

I thought ALPA was bad when I was at Eagle (Envoy). APA makes me miss ALPA and everything else about Envoy. Yeah, it's that pathetic over here. My only hope is that as more of us come over we'll slowly change things from within.

Unfortunaley, probably around 30-40% of the people who just got their furlough notices are guys that “came over”.
Timing is everything in the industry. It’s also mostly blind luck.
Most of those guys fought through a lot of rough times at EGL on to get to AA and suddenly find even harder times.

Roughly what year/month of new did the furloughs and ZTL’s go back to?

You know, every generation of pilots has its “stuff.” Millennials get plenty of crap, but admittedly the Millennial generation has been continuously beat down by post-9/11, post-2008, COVID, increased costs of education, cost of living, wage stagnation, etc. Career progression has been downright difficult if not near-impossible. I feel for the Eagle guys that finally made it to AA and now are going to be on the street. Life isn’t fair, but they can’t catch a break.

Quoted for emphasis.

f



So how about more leaves of absences????

yep.

The normal career boomers had seems to be an exception. These macro events are far further reaching with our more interconnected world.

Aug 2018 ----

And unfortunately, this is just the first wave.
Those thinking CARES 2 is going to do anything other than postponing the inevitable must be sharing adult beverages or illegal substances with The Stooge.

How is it that we have 3 regionals dead in the water, Every major and LCC forloughing and somehow the highest paid Endevour gets to sing along and start new hire training again?

My bet is eventually two, if not all three, WO will be combined into one airline. Reduces overhead costs.

I know some say each has a separate certificate, so it can’t happen. Matter of time to get everything under one company.

i know some say they want three to whipsaw against each other. In the current environment, in the next few years, there is not much whipsawing to go around.

Single transportation system definition by the NMB. It has been done before at Eagle.

This is exactly the time for them to whipsaw. They’ll cut costs by playing us off each other to avoid furloughs.

Honestly? We got extremely lucky.

We were having a hard time filling classes recently, so we were understaffed for the flying that was coming pre-COVID. The word last winter was to expect a summer of credit pushes.

Compass and GoJet were on their ways out with Delta already. Delta axed their flying early, which meant there was less pain to spread. OO went west. We're filling the gaps in ATL, DTW, and (to a lesser extent) MSP.

We're the cheapest DCI carrier left. Our pilot pay is higher, but we don't have the overhead that other airlines do. We use a lot of Delta infrastructure, which doesn't cost Delta much more.

In conclusion? Still extremely lucky.

"Combined" might be wishful thinking. I think the current playbook is to shut down one carrier, and offer you "preferential hiring" at the survivor. Senior Captain close to flow one day, new hire F/O at the bottom of another regional seniority list the next. May the odds be ever in your favor.

Expect the worst from dougie and the gang.

no big surprises there

Yeah, tell me about it. I'm one of them. Stagnated through the original AA bankruptcy, US Airways merger, numerous contract wars, watching as Parker and Kirby began to dismantle Eagle before our very eyes, etc. Now this. At least the Cares act looks like it'll get extended. I've been in close contact with APA's Government Affairs Committee and they are extremely positive that it'll pass. 99% done were the exact words used. That'll help all of us for now, and hopefully a vaccine and new political landscape will have changed things for the better by next Spring.

Combining WO
 

Check in with me in a few years. We will see what happens. May you live in interesting times, as the proverb says.

Sorry to hear it. I was furloughed in another life. The uncertainty was definitely the hardest part, but in the end, I think it actually put me on better path than I was on. You never know...
Here’s hoping CARES 2.0 comes to the rescue.

It's too bad the discussion is about flowing back AA guys and not flowing back our own former eagle flows. I'm way more open to taking a seniority hit for those dudes, but I really don't want to see (or bid against) F-15 punks who have probably never paid their dues, and never will.

Are you referring to the Piedmont talks?

No. I am not familiar with those.

Ain't no flow back happening. That's the wet dream of the junior aa pilots that chose to flow. You make your choice and live with it, they did and now are crying.
first this pilot group wants to mitigate furloughs then talk about flowback. You do understand flowing back means more furloughs and for longer period. Careful what you wish for, you may just get it then have to pay the price for it.

Not sure who wants flowback.
APC is the only place its been discussed.

Yeah that’s kinda my point. I was curious what the comment above about flow backs was referring too.

I haven’t heard it discussed anywhere and to be honest I don’t think the recent flows want it.

Those who have flowed are the ones coming on the board discussing it, not the pilots here. I just pointed out how it would affect all.
because they wanted the seniority what they had for when they flowed back.

Yeah no. Double no.

So it seems like this is dead. No plans to extend to 175 pilots? Even though they’re about to furlough 175 FOs followed by 175 CAs downgrades whenever they run the downgrade displacement. If only 28 145 guys took it I have a feeling numbers wise it’d be a wash if offered to 175 pilots. Or maybe once they finalize this first round of downgrades and furloughs they could offer it again?

Yeah I dont see why they won't offer it to the 175 pilots. I have heard training costs are part of it, but hell, training is training regardless of 145 or 175. I know they have an abundance of 145 drivers right now with everything happening in LGA, but I would think this situation dictates the use of as many VLOA as are willing to take it.

Guess that's why I am not in the management office though.