Most people who are employed at any regional would not leave for them. Their direct captain qualifications are pretty high too. How many compass pilots, Xjet, trans state, etc are still waiting to find a job or have the quals? For all we know, they advertise the req's but they hire with way less and no type. Who knows.

First new hire class consisting of at least cadets is announced for June 21

Assuming they will onboard the cadets and send them home without a base or equipment? If they allow them to bid equipment then the furloughed pilots who are still being brought back would lose their minds. Then again, these cadets are the greatest of all time and should probably just skip Envoy and go right to mainline. Easiest solution is to only offer OFE to them.

Actually the true irony would be if they mix a few new cadets in each class with the returning seniority list pilots. Then the cadets will be at the end of the equipment bid.

And I’m sure the returning pilots won’t mind a little bit more paid time off if it means there will be new hires below them on reserve by the time they finish training.

Does anyone know how many recalls actually came back?
Could they be done getting them in already?

my.envoyair.com/pilotfurlough has the class numbers. They have a lot more to go. Not even halfway done getting them back in class.

Interesting how they’d start new hire indoc classes then while there’s much more to recall. I think their intention is all cadet classes in the beginning.

That would be enjoyable to see the golden children relegated to the 145. It would be the fitting end to the story after all the compensation they have received over the past year for doing nothing and keeping their jobs while actual envoy pilots were sent to the street.

Do you have any idea how the cadet program works?

i know the company spent money on cadets while we had 228 on the street, and that’s not okay

Yup. And if they slot them into classes with furloughs who are returning and above them in seniority then the cadets will be below them and have zero shot at the 175.

About how many furloughees are still not flying?

Management can lead you to toxicity because it’s easy. This is toxic.

No ish. I don’t think you understand how the cadet program works though. They’re just contract employees. They get paid by envoy and then envoy bills the flight schools. Envoy has a contract with those schools and can’t just stop paying them.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul 🤔

Again, I completely understand, and an organization with deep pockets like AAG can easily break a contract with a force majeure clause in the time of a national pandemic. The contracts should have been suspended while real envoy pilots were thrown on the street. Keeping cadets and giving them health care, D2 travel, and accruing vacation/sick while actual employees were furloughed was an absolute slap in the face. This is why I have no use for the cadet program.

The problem with doing that is they had already payed them signing bonuses, so by suspending the contract they’d likely lose a good portion of them and the money. As opposed to just maintaining the program for a year and getting their eventual return on investment. The program it’s self is very cheap to operate and relatively self sufficient. There’d be more long term negative effects for the company by ending the program, even if it wasn’t fair.

My fault for phrasing it badly.

How many pilots that had been furloughed previously are currently in training, so not yet requalified to fly? Looking for a rough number.

Somewhere around 45 of 220+ are in training. A ways to go to get them all back. Hopefully by August.

Interview
 

I was a new hire in february of last year with a class date of beginning of april. I just got called back to do the interview process all over again. They were saying us new hires would more than likely be in class around Q4 of this year. But no more sign on bonus.

It stinks that they are making you interview again. I get a new PRIA, background check, etc., but why interview?
I’m also amazed that they are going to try to staff this airline through the end of the year without new blood. We are going to be JM’d left and right.
They’ll only bring back the bonus if they can’t find applicants. Frankly, that makes sense to me. Why pay bonuses if people are walking in the door without them?

this should not last long, specially with Endeavor upping up their game and the attrition we are seeing at theVoy. Remember they are reactive not proactive

haven’t seen numbers from alpa in this regard, you would know since you have access to it. All I see is people every week posting on fb that they are going elsewhere, u see a few RE on reserve list every so often etc.. it’d be nice to see some actual numbers from alpa. maybe % of CJO’s coming back to envoy

You don’t call that attrition? Considering the number of pilots that were taken off active flying and would have been furloughed if not for the government dole. Only cargo was hiring and only recently were the ULLCs the first to start hiring of the pax carriers.

The only reason Envoy isn’t even more under staffed is because of the number of aircraft retired from service and AAG giving more flying to Skywest.

ALPA posts them under the "files" section of the base Facebook page.

These files should also be on the eagle.alpa.org website. As far as I know, a Facebook page(where management spies on) is not our primary communication source. I see more information being posted on fb pages than on our website or emails.

i don’t see 12-13/Mo as high attrition. Those on reserve last fall are still on reserve. We have people that have had 2 full years of reserve.

Our flow is a joke. After 92 people it will go down to 12 a month.

Envoy isn’t a good place to be right now

Been closer to 25 past 2 months. So it is trending better.

Your methodology is flawed. It seems to be based on an assumption that AA will only hire enough bodies to cover mandatory retirements in 2022 (~600), assuming that no one checks out before 65, and that AA doesn’t try to grow back to its pre-March 2020 size. Frankly, if we assume that AA is going to go back to hiring 900-1000 a year to remain competitive, our flow is closer to 19-20/month based on our current list and LOA 18-01.

Nothing is stopping anyone here from applying to another legacy and getting hired if they can present a competitive application (undergrad degree, command time, union or volunteer work, sweeteners like a masters or LCA time, etc.). Or chuck your spot at a global network carrier and go to a ULCC or ACMI. Whatever works for you and your career goals. Either way, that non-interview/no degree required flow is way more of a guarantee in life than someone at another contract carrier has.

The best thing flow offers is constant movement at the top. Even though I have some pretty critical things to say about Envoy and AAG, the flow is still a very valuable thing for them, and I will never be a flow hater like some jealous outsiders are.

The problem they were building was that you flow 20 a month but hire 60. With the average outside attrition, it means every 2 weeks increases flow time by about 1 month for a new hire. So mathematically the flow isn't as valuable for a new hire today, as it was for 2016 hires who will still flow in 6-6.5 years even with the COVID pause.

I don’t disagree, but the mid 2018 and later hires will be 7-10 years...which to me seems of little value, other than the constant movement you mention. We have some pretty sour junior folks who have been on reserve for 2 years.

I hope to beat the flow. I have a masters, some good LORs, but sitting at 700 hours in 2 years isn’t going to cut it.

I wish AAG would make good on the recruiting pitch they sold us and make it a 5 year flow, but I haven’t heard anything from the company or the union about correcting the flow to the bill of good we were sold

That five year flow has always been a bill of goods. I have talked to some twenty somethings that seem to think they are entitled to that five year flow.

Only thing that might even come close is a class action lawsuit for false advertising. But just like the military, the recruiter can promise the moon, but if it wasn’t in the contract you signed, No soup for you!

When RW walks into INDOC day 1 and says “welcome to AA, you’ll be on their list within 5 years” it easy to see why they feel entitled.

I knew it was unlikely, but I thought with the shortage it may get close. Hell at this point my 7.5 year union predicted flow sounds good.

I do think we’re owed answers from RW & Co about what they’re going to do to make good on their promises. We all know it won’t be 5 years, but what are they willing to do to try and speed it up

I was in the 7ish year group. But as people who have flown with me know, I did not come to Envoy for the flow. I flew just over 2000 hours in my 2.5 years here. My plan was always to get in, get my time, and get out.

About the union side, my crystal ball says you should read your email tomorrow.
Just dont expect any good news.

I'll answer this in a few weeks when I am not on the seniority list any more.

That’s an ominous quote for late at night lol

And believe me, many of us would love to fly our butts off, but that’s hard to do on perpetual reserve.

Congrats on the new job,btw.

Thanks!

I got lucky that I was just barely senior enough not to be screwed by COVID and the faux furloughs that ended up costing company a ton more than they ever saved.