Yeah. Never had to deal with him, but I’ve heard he had quite the personality switch once he took the job. Must be the jet fume toxins in the office there.

point being they don’t follow their own progressive discipline process, nor do they correct managers running amuck trying to make a name for themselves.
nothings changed

You're not wrong and i don't disagree with you.

the fact is that pretty much everyone beyond the street level people at Envoy are hopelessly incompetent, viscious and evil, or both. the only reason this place has made it this far without reforming this extremely toxic culture is because a lot of us here are naive team players that say "well, I'm the captain so I have to take responsibility for X, Y, and Z" even though there are people (probably a lot of people) who are supposed to be doing that, and who aren't. when you consistently cover for people like this they end up getting into places they most certainly don't belong, JE in CS comes to mind. doesn't have the disposition or the intellect to run a rural starbucks and yet she exerts capricious, hostile control over not only our schedules but even our bid packets

it's literally crazy existing in this system having come from another industry where minimally competent management is the norm. this organization runs more like a poorly performing government agency than any business I've ever seen

Uh so apparently we are down to 1600 pilots? Been nice knowing y’all.

maybe if we get sold to mesa we can join the Aviate flow to United

Why United is hiring more envoy pilots than flow to aa and united aviate program

Uhh???????

The last union email with staffing info on 2/16 says over 2200 pilots on property, so I’m not sure what you’re smoking.

Should be around 2160. Fun fact, when genius Ric decided to furlough we were at 2365. This thing is a bleeder for sure.

Heh my bad I meant 1800 but even that’s off. Thanks for correcting

Saved one month in payroll and cost 250-ish long term training events and quite a few pilots who never came back, not to mention all the JMs and cancellations by being critically short on pilots. Ric and DT are both absolute mental midgets, and that was a great example of it.

Poor unfortunate souls

I'd love to be in a meeting where peepees got slapped over some of these decisions but we all know they aren't happening. Envoy/AAG never holds failed managers accountable, only frontline people.

Like anything else, they only see what they want. They see the money saved furloughing, not the expense of the additional training and not having those people available.

Oh no, they know they screwed up.
Just that no-one has to be responsible for it. But they know exactly how many millions they wasted on that.

I should have been more specific. I’m sure they KNOW they wasted millions, but they only acknowledge what they saved. Tripping over dollars to save pennies.

What does RW’s email mean for current 145 drivers on property? Displacements coming?

I doubt it. Probably will be attrition based. That said, gonna suck for the junior FOs on that airplane and for junior captains on that airplane with a seat lock.

Anybody that might have bid 145 captain on the last bid will likely be ok. I don’t see anyone preferencing the 145 now though. With displacements those folks won’t be seat locked so anyone with a seat lock should be a little more senior and won’t suck AS bad. But no way around it, still definitely going to suck if you happen to be junior.

I would NOT preference bif 145 now. That s for sure.

Does this mean that most, if not all of the new hire spots will go to the 175?

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Nothing official, but it is looking that way. But I would definitely not stake everything on that bet. Envoy has a way of, well, Envoying people.

I am surprised FO displacement to CA was not mentioned. After all this madness, are there many FOs left holding out? I’ve seen some super senior ones changing planes doing day trips, but don’t know how they have not been displaced several years ago before COVID.

There is currently a crop of senior FO's who have not upgraded who may be displaced. With how incompetent our back office people are though it's entirely possible they just haven't realized they need to run a displacement.

The union talked about this in the all call. Fully expected to happen. The whole reason for likely parking planes is lack of qualified FOs to become captains as the hemorrhaging continues.

The last bid was filled and left pilots that still had hours to upgrade. The next bid will probably be filled with displacements of the most junior qualified FOs to 145 captains. Many did not upgrade because they didn’t have seniority to hold the 175 and didn’t want to get seat locked on the 145.

Displacement to captain will happen, but displacement of FOs from 145 to 175 likely NOT going to happen. That’s the attrition that will see the fleet shrink and as long as they have captains to fill the 175 and enough displacements to fill the 145 they will still have some new hires on the 145 as well.

Haven't looked at the training flow plan, but as long as there are bodies to fill upgrade classes scheduled beyond the next regular bid, they won’t run the next one early. Union did say January bid is generally smaller and it is expected the April bid will be larger but no indication yet of how large.

Good thing we downgraded all those captains during the pandemic. I’m sure the savings were immeasurable.

And furloughed 227 people as well. How do Ric and Pedro still have a job? Does anyone at AAG actually evaluate the wholly owned carriers or do they just take the word of their underlings as gospel?

The people doing the evaluating also furloughed people at mainline. It is incompetence top to middle.

Most, if not all, of those downgraded were DECs. I’d be surprised if very many are even still at Envoy.

They also mentioned the possible return of the standing vacancies. The past couple months I’ve flown with several FOs that had the time and seniority but were all holding out because they weren’t sure they’d get the 175.
I’d expect that mentality to continue into the future bids. I imagine everyone going to 145CA in the future bids will all be displacements. Then of course when the next bid comes, they’ll all jump ship to the 175. Further backing up training.

if only this company could be proactive for once

I don't know about ALL. There is the 30% limitation. But yeah, they'll do that, back up training, and it will be expensive with even more collective time with our pilots going through long term while we're short staffed. Seems like there could be a better way.

There is: Accept the seat lock for an additional five hours of pay.

But the reality is that likely isn’t enough under current circumstances to keep people from jumping which says they need more incentive to stay where they are.

Yeah, I don't think that's enough given the fleet draw down of the 145. It was a very different situation a couple years back when that LOA was implemented and that still wasn't enough for some people then. Also, I think the value of that LOA took a huge hit when we learned the company can cancel that five hours of pay per month if they ever found the desire to.

i think a bonus to take DCE/OCE is the way to go. 10k/year.

Management likes bonuses, that's for sure. But will our 175 centric union be happy about that? lol

That cancels the seat lock too. Take my money? I’ll go sit in a class room for 2 months waiting for somebody else to call.

You'd think they wont, but they did.

In this current environment of super duper critical triple fudge coverage, being on the 175 is worth like 50k a year if you do even a little bit of OT.

Is there not huge amounts of OT on the 145? I thought that was why everyone ended up being declared SCC.

The thing is that’s what anyone who gets displaced will be. It’s STAYING on the 145 that they need an incentive for. Theoretically, taking the seat lock after displacement would be worth about $5K per year with the extra 5 hours per month pay (for two years).

But losing someone for two months during a second long term training event plus the cost of training itself (actual cost plus both are opportunity costs) need to be looked at and factored in, but the company has shown both unwillingness to work with the union and pilots and likely because they are unable to see the TRUE cost of not fixing these problems.