There's plenty of open trips on the 145, but it's all DHD DFW-ACT and operate back the next day at 10 AM type stuff.

Anything left in OT on the 175 is mostly trips that leave base and don’t return until the end. Impossible to even pick up an overnight without taking the entire four day.

There's a way to get them to award parts of these trips w/ deadheads back to base to start your scheduled sequence but I'm not going to say it on here because I love money.

The union could really capitalize on a quality of life loa specific to the 145 to attract guys to stay on the plane. Qualified upgrades provide more experienced pilots to the metal and less bidding off of it saving training cost. Make reserve 13 days off or extra 10hrs credit + staff the plane to higher days off avg. to the 175 , Rap reserve 4 hour call out?. 5 grand won’t come close to buying a seat lock. Extra two days off a month plus might buy lock or similar? Maybe

Can't stretch the RAP callout without increasing airport standbys on the 145. The segment lengths are way too short for that.

Only because JE doesn't know how to run a modern scheduling department without an army of airport standby's and reserves. She's an embarrassment to the airline. Worse is the management team above here that allows it to continue.

Would a move to wheelsup for a low time FO be smart?

No
/Filler/

no


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Any specific reason? Commuting to reserve on the 145 for now and see that the schedules are pretty brutal even for line holders with only 2 days off between most trips. Moving to base isn’t an option.

At least being junior youll get called and wont spend much if anything on hotels. Jet > turboprop

Do you want to move on to a bigger airline, or do you want to fly charter? Looks bad moving away from 121, especially to a smaller aircraft, especially not being a jet, even if it is still a turbine.

It’s for the Beechcraft 400. My main pull would be for the 8/6 schedule and more time at home. I would love to eventually end up at a legacy.

Honestly I’m not sure. Im still so new I don’t know what I don’t know about the aviation industry.

Seeing 90 percent of the lines on the 145 with11-12 days off a month with 2 days off between trips doesn't sound appealing for the next few years.

That s not the best path to a legacy.

Nope. If you want to do airline flying, do airline flying.

This is old advice.

I can guarantee more corporate/135 pilots were hired at AA in 2022 than Envoy pilots. Even including the flow.

Corporate/135 tend to get turbine PIC faster as well. I would say go, try to upgrade as fast as possible. You'll beat the flow to AA by years.

Just throwing a real life example out there: I was interviewing at F9 recently and among those of us that got a CJO were two young envoy guys with 100 hours in the right seat of the 145. I’d apply at a ULCC and go to a bus rather than a small corporate jet. Just my opinion.

I don’t know if it’s true, but that’s not a fair comparison. Corporate/135 is one entire section of the industry vs Envoy as a single pilot group. Do you think more corporate pilots were hired than RJ drivers?

As to the original question:
The industry changes fast. Work somewhere you can live with longer term in case you get stuck there.

From what I’ve seen firsthand this is spot on (take it with a grain of salt because I am in fact just one dude). But I’ve had a couple legacy interviews lately and at each interview about 1/4 of my fellow interviewees were ULCC pilots that were either in initial training or recently typed in the 320. Additionally any ULCC is a step up from a regional and long term probably better than most 135/91 jobs.

Envoy is awful in essentially every aspect. But keep your focus…. You got the job at Envoy with the sole purpose of quitting to get a better job.

He can get 1000hrs TPIC flying 135 without building 1000hrs 121 first. It will be faster. There are pilot getting hired at AA with TPIC in King Air's and Cheyennes, some of it not even 135.

I assume you mean forecast to be hired in 2022? We are not even one fourth of the way through 2022. Maybe Year to Date?

Go ACMI, ULCC.

1000 TPIC isn’t needed at all anymore to go to a legacy.
the best advice I’ve seen so far in this thread - assuming his goal is a legacy - is to go to Spirit, Frontier and even Allegiant right now. You’ll get hired at the legacy far sooner… and if not you’re already at a good place. Once the Spirit Frontier merge is complete I’ll bet their CBA magically becomes very comparable to legacy rates and benefits.

certain ACMI are even very good choices and have lots of guys moving to legacies. Nobody leaves for the LCC’s anymore at the better ACMI’s as they’ve become good careers too.

it’s a great time to be a pilot.

Dude, you're like a broken record that nobody listens to anymore. We get it. You bombed on the flow and still have serious butt hurt. You and the other ex rep that CONSTANTLY post here and have it in for the company BOTH need to get a life.

So you think everyone should blindly chug the company KoolAid and wait patiently for a flow that might not even be around in eight to ten years.

There are other options and people need to know what there is.

I know it just tears at your company shill heart strings to think that people may be happier or better off someplace else.

Pot, meet kettle.

I've been off for a month, annoying you is a great way to keep me entertained.

what bugs him most is they can’t intimidate us from telling the truth anymore and helping those coming after us to a better faster career path than we had, or than Envoy can offer (currently).

I was off from Feb 8th until March 12th. Creative bidding and not a single vacation.

Yeah yeah. We've heard it all before. An Envoy Captain is probably making more than you do. Plus, he flows to American.

You do make some extra money every time you get junior manned which is often so u got a point.

Don’t worry he doesn’t know what a JM is, he rode the office for 95% of his regional days

Envoy Captains making 30k a month like some ACMI FOs are? Doubt it.

I know zero about the specifics at Envoy these days, but I think we're going to find ourselves at a place where more airlines go under in eight to ten months, not years. The truth of the matter is that airlines (at any level) don't operate without LCAs, and at my soon to be former WO the number of those we have is about 25% of what they'd like to have and dwindling fast, to say nothing of instructors, etc.

To the person asking about Wheels Up, count me among the "go to a ULCC" crowd, and quite honestly that's what most of the FOs I've been flying with have been doing.

BUT

I do think there's an outside chance that AA might soon see a longer term value in the pilots that it current has warehoused at its WO'd carriers. What that looks like I have no idea, but the simple fact is that pilots aren't leaving regionals based on strictly financial motivations; they're leaving to go start accruing seniority on a list that will eventually meet those financial motivations. First Legacy management team to have that lightbulb moment and figure out the implications of it wins a prize.

According to the MEC what you suggest is basically impossible with current mgmt, they think a small financial incentive is sufficient.

They’re going to flow us to the street when it’s convenient, probably during the inevitable AA Ch. 11 that’s coming.

I tell people here all the time that the powers that be in DAY don’t have the authority to make the changes that can fix this airline, all of the resides in DFW.

Now, that line doesn’t really work for Envoy because both managements are in DFW, but the premise is still accurate: all of this can only change when Legacy airline management realizes that the current relationship structure between them and the FFD carriers doesn’t work in this environment.

The key question is how many parked airplanes will it take for some MBA to have an “Aha!” moment.


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my worst month last year during covid was $12k; my best was $28k. I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.

you’ve been institutionalized at Envoy so long that you don’t even realize how far the industry has progressed.

once a guy is hired at Envoy they should immediately begin applying elsewhere. I’ve seen United pick up an FO just off training by 3 months at his first 121 regional job. We told them over 7 years ago that as the looming shortage worsens their flow would become less and less valuable. They didn’t believe it then, and they don’t believe it now. They won’t learn until they shrink to a 1,000 pilot airline.

Whats the best way to use my 20 hrs of sick during my last 2 weeks? Or am I donating to Pedro?

Call in for your last sequence?