Adagosto11

Hi all, I've been out of flying gig for a number of years, but think it might be time to get back to it. Envoy is my first choice and would come back as a DEC. So I have a few questions. If anyone could shed some light, I'd really appreciate it.

A friend I used to fly with recently did same, made his own return back to line flying, but he's since resigned. Just couldn't deal with commuting. But while he was there as recently as 6 months ago, he spoke of most lines paying double and triple time. Is that still going on? So what degree or not can you earn higher than the base rate? Is that even a thing right now?

Phoenix is my home, so is that a reasonable domicile for a new guy? I'd come in with 7-years 121 time, but so what, I'd be the plug. I understand it's a Jr base, but also small. Does it have a good outlook? And for that matter, should I expect to be on reserve for 12 months? 24 months? Indefinitely??

Finally, is this a good place to be? Do you guys like it? Are the schedules ok or do you basically get beat up all month? I certainly don't mind putting my dues in, that's expected and fair, but is there light at the end on the Envoy tunnel or is that light only a thing when you leave? Thanks all for your feedback.

Ravenwing

You ask hard questions. I returned to flying as a DEC at Envoy after 15 years and it absolutely can be done. I am not currently based in Phoenix but it looks to me like DECs are getting PHX while still in training and there are captains holding hard lines in May with under a year with the company. Phoenix is projected to continue to grow modestly but it's all up to AA how much flying Envoy gets in Phoenix. However you may not be as lucky as the pilots at the beginning of the DEC hiring wave.

The pay scales for Envoy posted on this website are accurate. The DEC $100k bonus is real and comes with a two year contract. To make more than that you will need to work on holidays, vacation, or days off at time and a half or become an LCA or sim instructor. Many captains in PHX sit home on reserve and fly OT on their days off.

I commute to reserve and just had a week with weather, edict times, a ground stop, a diversion, a cancellation, major maintenance delay, airport standby, lots of MELs and schedule changes for the worse. Pilots who live in base are definitely happier, but if you have flown part 121 you know things aren't always going to go your way. How you handle the challenges of the job and how happy you are is ultimately up to you.

BurnCycle

I don't fly lines much right now, I'm fortunate enough to live in base and sit at home on reserve. I do bid lines now and then when they look good, and I will say lines tend to fluctuate between pretty nice and kind of rough. Right now, we're seeing some things like 5 legs on day 4 for some reason, but overall they are "meh". We are getting pretty well staffed compared to other regionals, so things will likely shift back. To summarize, lines go up and down, and of course the normal 121 drama happens, but overall, I'm quite happy here, and most people I fly with are as well. You will always have the jaded "screw this place" guys, and the guys that are only here for a paycheck, but luckily, most pilots here are enjoyable to fly with. From what I understand, PHX is a good gig if you live in base.

Sasquatched

Impossible to predict but I would plan for a year minimum of reserve and potentially up to infinity. PHX base is small and seems to be growing very slowly, some might say even stagnant. Being towards the bottom of the reserve lists means constant 8 hour airport standby shifts day after day. Reserve blocks are generally 4-5 day stints. Envoy reserve is strictly seniority based, no bucket system or whatever anyone else calls it. 200% & 300% is a thing of the past, we are not short staffed anywhere at the moment and foreseeable future. It’s been a year since we’ve seen it, so not sure what your buddy is talking about. If you pick up any OT on your days off it will be at 150% over guarantee but it’s tough to pick up OT on reserve aside from maybe a turn here and there. Reserve is 75 hour guarantee and you will never fly over 75 hours a month on reserve.

Adagosto11

That's exactly how long I've been out...2009 for me.

I joined the forum, made this post and then saw that I have wait like 48 hours before my post gets posted....so I have some more news. Can anyone confirm this...

The recruiter I have spoken with (they are all great) said that PHX is very doable for a DEC. But I should expect to be on reserve for 12-18 months. No problem...not so fast.

He also explained the bottom 8 get an 8-hour airport standby day (no pay change). The next 8 pilots get a 2-hour callout. Only the most senior get the 12-hour callout.

Just the threat of being stuck on an 8-hour airport standby away from home is enough to make me think all of this. I came from the old US Air, and while that was a major airline, it was more like a glorified regional. Even they didn't pull the airport standby thing too much, let alone 8-hours.

So, IDK..I don't think I can get passed that. If it were a bid, that's one thing, but I'm thinking this could be an extended kinda thing.

thoughts?

Ravenwing

Long call reserve, 12 hour call out, is not available in Phoenix. There are only two long call lines in the other bases and they go very senior.

8 hour airport standby shifts go first to any pilot who bids a line of them (someone who badly wants weekends off or a holiday off and can't get it any other way), then to someone who proffered for it, then to the most junior pilots available on that particular day. Pilots actually bid for standby shifts when it allows them an easier commute on their first day (a 1500 standby shift is easier to get to than a 0400 or 1000 short call shift) or when they think an early standby shift will let them get released earlier to commute home on their last day. I bid for 0600-1400 standby on Monday after I lost my overnight due to a maintenance delay the day before because I wasn't legal for 0400-1800 short call and 1000-2400 short call might have caused me to miss my last flight home. They didn't use me and I caught my flight home, but even if they had used me, at least they couldn't work me to midnight.

Two captains are assigned standby shifts in Phoenix every day, but there is a good chance that at least one of those spots goes to someone who wants it. It is true that anyone unlucky enough to be at the bottom of the reserve list for awhile will get ready reserve more often than anyone else. Airport standby has a 15 minute call out.

I look at it as yet another way you have to pay your dues as a junior pilot. I think most regionals have a form of airport standby.

Ravenwing

The most I have been assigned airport standby without bidding for it is twice a month.

Quality of life gets better once you hold a line. Many senior people are content to be lifers a Envoy but the retired legacy pilots who became Envoy DECs have told me how much better they had it at their old jobs. Envoy is one of the better regionals but you will still get regional treatment at times even as a line holder.

My sim partner hadn't flown in 10 years and went to Southwest after 3 months on reserve as a DEC at Envoy. If you want to go to American for a PHX base you would be better off going to SkyWest as it's hard to get hired outside of flow. I hear SkyWest requires instrument currency and some flight time within the last year. Envoy does not.

Adagosto11

This is VERY helpful. Thank you.

DocFitzhume

Agreed, there is some great information here, thank you Ravenwing. I am also currently considering a DEC position, but would be a commuter to any Envoy base and the idea of airport reserve for multiple years definitely gives me pause. Would you say all four bases would be around the same reserve time for a new DEC? You also mentioned bidding early airport reserve windows for one day; is the timeframe done on a day to day basis VS monthly award?

I would also worry with the frantic hiring the past 12-18 months the number of FO's coming up for upgrade will increase greatly this year, which may extend DEC reserve times even more. Just not sure how much the new a/c on property will offset that number.

GoesTo11

Opinion: Take it or leave it

Most FO's on property could care less about upgrading and want to move on as soon as possible. Those that are hardcore interested in flying for AA may stick around vs going to another airline and then jumping to AA.

Ask a recruiter what current base seniority is. It changes all the time though. Miami has the most senior folks with people hired in late 2022 still on reserve. Again this will change quarterly. Once on property you can get a sense of things and bid a different base if you feel like it.

Hiring has slowed down a great deal because of aircraft delivery issues at various companies. We can all hope it will pick up if/when alternative aircraft become available but who knows. An economic hiccup could extend the reduced pace of hiring. Thus keeping more people senior to you on property. Some senior folks bid reserve because they can work the system and make lots of extra money flying on days off. This helps some of the junior pilots get lines when just looking at the list top to bottom you wouldn't think they would.

Commuting sucks. Comutting to reserve sucks even more. I don't care what airline you work for. It turns a part-time job into a full-time job. You will give up a lot of your personal life commuting. I refuse to do it. I would rather quit flying then ask for rides every week. Been there done that, did it for 10 years, and quit an airline because of it. Moving for me wasn't an option.

As far as being a DEC on reserve put things in perspective. You are being paid more than your FO's (generally speaking) who may be senior to you. You are in the left seat, which most people love, and you are flying generally good equipment. Not much to complain about in my opinion. There are some weak areas in our contract that I don't know if they will ever get fixed but the same can be said just about anywhere.

As far as companies go I think Envoy is a good place. It will always be a regional with regional issues but there are far worse places to work.