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Article: Envoy needs 47% fewer pilots
Sky Talk: With American parking regional aircraft, Envoy will need 47 percent fewer pilots
With American parking regional aircraft, Envoy will need 47 percent fewer pilots American Airlines Group has told Envoy Air's pilots union it plans to park 59 small regional jets and transfer 47 larger regional jets away from its subsidiary carrier. As a result, Envoy will need 47 percent fewer pilots than it has today, the Air Line Pilots Association said in a note to pilots on Thursday. The news comes about a month after the pilots voted down a proposed contract that would have given Envoy Air larger aircraft to fly in exchange for a pay scale freeze until 2018 and other concessions. ALPA-MEC chairman Bill Sprague said the company intends to park 59 Embraer 140s and transfer 47 CRJ-700s to another third-party regional carrier to operate under the American Eagle brand. "Currently the future looks very bleak," Sprague said, adding that the carrier won't have any aircraft to replace the ones they are losing and anticipate that a displacement bid for pilots will be available shortly. Last week on American Airlines Group's earning call, president Scott Kirby confirmed that the airline is in final negotiations with a couple of regional carriers to fly new, larger Embraer 175 aircraft and will announce at some point who will fly them using the American Eagle brand. It will not be Envoy Air, the regional subsidiary owned by American that used to be called American Eagle, Kirby said, reiterating that "Envoy is still an important part of the airline." |
already being discussed ad nauseam on the 'envoys future' thread.
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The 2014 shortage problem has been solved. Larger equipment, mergers and downsizing just might take care of future "shortage" issues.
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And yet Eagle/Envoy is moving forward with their plans to relocate Eagle/Envoy headquarters to Irving, TX. Why would AA management continue with the expense and effort of moving 600 Eagle/Envoy operations employees to DFW, (separate from AA operations), if they intended to let Envoy to simply "wither on the vine"?
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AAG must be fighting hard to get a cheap price for the feed because the deal would have been done by now. they have been negotiating this as plan b for 4 months. My summation is that the other feeders have AAG in a corner and want more money to save there a zz from anymore embarrassment from these scum regional pilots at EAGLE/envoy.
Only place where they can do as they please is at PDT and PSA. Wisconsin is a wild card in this game. |
What pilot shortage? Hahaha...
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Originally Posted by Slick111
(Post 1634947)
Why would AA management continue with the expense and effort of moving 600 Eagle/Envoy operations employees to DFW,
...USair is taking over our current space and management needs to keep eagle operation running a bit longer!!! Besides, they don't know what to do with that $480 million PROFIT made in the first quarter but blow it off!!! |
Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1634950)
AAG must be fighting hard to get a cheap price for the feed because the deal would have been done by now. they have been negotiating this as plan b for 4 months. My summation is that the other feeders have AAG in a corner and want more money to save there a zz from anymore embarrassment from these scum regional pilots at EAGLE/envoy.
Only place where they can do as they please is at PDT and PSA. Wisconsin is a wild card in this game. My understanding is that the deals are worked out. 20 will go to a carrier who can start the flying beginning of 2015 and the other 20 will go to another carrier that can start the flying later that year. They will announce soon. SkyWest is sitting on an announcement for additional AA flying and should be out sometime in the next two weeks. Not sure if its for the 175, but its additional flying nonetheless. Also, Envoy is not just flying its also a large and growing ground handling business. They still need to house those operations and administrative functions. Just because the flying will disappear, doesn't mean the low wage ground handling jobs will. |
Just a typical play by management from the old union busting playbook.
First, the carrot - Shiny new jets...that did not work Second, the stick - You will all lose your jobs / not make Captain / not hold the base you want to hold...seems like it might be working based on the responses I am reading on here Next - Expect management to put out another concessionary deal to your union while the majority of your pilot group vote in the cuts because they are motivated by a false sense of fear Enjoy your upcoming pay cut while you will begin flying better revenue generating aircraft for American. |
Originally Posted by air101
(Post 1634982)
My understanding is that the deals are worked out. 20 will go to a carrier who can start the flying beginning of 2015 and the other 20 will go to another carrier that can start the flying later that year. They will announce soon. SkyWest is sitting on an announcement for additional AA flying and should be out sometime in the next two weeks. Not sure if its for the 175, but its additional flying nonetheless.
Also, Envoy is not just flying its also a large and growing ground handling business. They still need to house those operations and administrative functions. Just because the flying will disappear, doesn't mean the low wage ground handling jobs will. |
Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville
(Post 1634984)
Just a typical play by management from the old union busting playbook.
First, the carrot - Shiny new jets...that did not work Second, the stick - You will all lose your jobs / not make Captain / not hold the base you want to hold...seems like it might be working based on the responses I am reading on here Next - Expect management to put out another concessionary deal to your union while the majority of your pilot group vote in the cuts because they are motivated by a false sense of fear Enjoy your upcoming pay cut while you will begin flying better revenue generating aircraft for American. In rejecting our TA with such a wide margin, we said to our inept management that we would rather sit back and watch this company die than subsidize its existence with our pay check. Everyone knows that Eagle is the best and cheapest option for them in placing their stupid 175's. Parker and pals really are just a bunch of juvenile idiots. |
This doesn't mean management WILL do this. It's simply what they said they'd do. They have a long standing history of not doing what they say.
Edit: this is good that the media is picking up on it. Hopefully it'll force management to respond. |
Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1634991)
if I am not wrong, 80 percent of this growing ground handling is due to envoy. granted they will put envoy ground handling in all feed contractors contract, but it is not a growing business. just reshuffling, ask the DCA people how the ground handling growth is going for them, they all got pink slips.
Actually it is. Envoy is the preferred ground handler for United outstations. Both express and mainline. |
let see, UCAL prefers Envoy/AAG service than UCAL service on ground. basically supporting AAG bottom line. You all don't see something fishy in all this. UCAL can start a ground service separate from the airlines and contract all its ground cheaper just like aag does with prospect and C2.
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Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1635012)
let see, UCAL prefers Envoy/AAG service than UCAL service on ground. basically supporting AAG bottom line. You all don't see something fishy in all this. UCAL can start a ground service separate from the airlines and contract all its ground cheaper just like aag does with prospect and C2.
UA doesn't care, they just wan't whats cheapest and right now its Envoy ground handling. If they thought they could run a handling company cheaper they would have done it already. |
well then they are more stupid the AAG/AMR
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Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1635047)
well then they are more stupid the AAG/AMR
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Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1634950)
AAG must be fighting hard to get a cheap price for the feed because the deal would have been done by now. they have been negotiating this as plan b for 4 months. My summation is that the other feeders have AAG in a corner and want more money to save there a zz from anymore embarrassment from these scum regional pilots at EAGLE
Yes, Eagle and XJT pilots may have inadvertently given Rev. Bedford, Mr. Adkins, and others a nice bump in their bonus checks. How ironic. |
Originally Posted by JT8D
(Post 1634993)
The majority of Eagle pilots are ready willing and able to shut this joke of an operation down.
Most talk tough and then fold when it comes down to the final vote. |
Originally Posted by Thedude
(Post 1635137)
I have heard that before at other carriers.
Most talk tough and then fold when it comes down to the final vote. I am assuming you meant people will cave at the demands. AE has said no to the B scale, no to the AIP and no to the TA! What happens next is not information that you and I are entitled to so I don't think we should be comenting on how a pilot group would react and vote. Let it play out and see how it does, we need to stop negociating against ourselves. |
Originally Posted by What
(Post 1635152)
What's the final vote?
I am assuming you meant people will cave at the demands. I am hoping those at Eagle will stick to their guns and vote down whatever insulting contract they get thrown at them. 'Cause you know they next vote will be on their final offer until the next final offer. |
Originally Posted by Catboatsailor
(Post 1635211)
This is the most uniformed opinion I've seen lately.
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Originally Posted by Thedude
(Post 1635241)
Yes.
I am hoping those at Eagle will stick to their guns and vote down whatever insulting contract they get thrown at them. 'Cause you know they next vote will be on their final offer until the next final offer. |
Max pay til the last day!!!
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Originally Posted by air101
(Post 1634982)
20 will go to a carrier who can start the flying beginning of 2015 and the other 20 will go to another carrier that can start the flying later that year. They will announce soon. SkyWest is sitting on an announcement for additional AA flying and should be out sometime in the next two weeks. Not sure if its for the 175, but its additional flying nonetheless.
There aren't that many ATP rated pilots out on the street willing to work for peanuts (1st year RJ rates) that haven't already been scooped up. |
who really cares where skw and carriers who take eagle/envoy flying gets pilots. not envoy pilots concern. at that point envoy pilots could care less if AA goes out of business.
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Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1634950)
AAG must be fighting hard to get a cheap price for the feed because the deal would have been done by now. they have been negotiating this as plan b for 4 months. My summation is that the other feeders have AAG in a corner and want more money to save there a zz from anymore embarrassment from these scum regional pilots at EAGLE/envoy.
Only place where they can do as they please is at PDT and PSA. Wisconsin is a wild card in this game. |
how is this going to impact the looming pilot shortage
(sarcastic) |
<Charlie Kelly>
"Wildcard, b@&£#$!" /<Charlie Kelly> |
Originally Posted by el jefe
(Post 1635545)
<Charlie Kelly>
"Wildcard, b@&£#$!" /<Charlie Kelly> |
What percentage of Eagle guys are still eligible (and will) for the flow through?
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everyone hired up to and including 11 October 2011.
that is up to each individual. i would rather go to delta than aa. |
Originally Posted by Thedude
(Post 1635621)
What percentage of Eagle guys are still eligible (and will) for the flow through?
They are going 20/month of the 824. After that, anyone hired up to October 2011 ("protected pilot" group) is in a similar flow through of 35% of each class (824 if 50% but the company is choosing to meter instead). After the protected pilot group (so anyone after October 2011) there are the preferential interviews. If you are in that group, you have some sort of preferential interview at AA. I do not believe there is an obligation to hire anyone interviewed. |
You guys need to start writing up every airplane, sick outs, etc
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Originally Posted by MrObvious
(Post 1635650)
You guys need to start writing up every airplane, sick outs, etc
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that is why we have obama, so not to worry about wealth we will share in the wealth equally. screw the chicken
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Originally Posted by snippercr
(Post 1635647)
All numbered guys have gone over.
They are going 20/month of the 824. After that, anyone hired up to October 2011 ("protected pilot" group) is in a similar flow through of 35% of each class (824 if 50% but the company is choosing to meter instead). After the protected pilot group (so anyone after October 2011) there are the preferential interviews. If you are in that group, you have some sort of preferential interview at AA. I do not believe there is an obligation to hire anyone interviewed. Ok, You still didn't answer my question. I don't know how many eagle guys there are and Eagle has grown tremendously since 1997. What percentage are eligible to flow through? Or even a rough number. |
Originally Posted by snippercr
(Post 1635647)
All numbered guys have gone over.
They are going 20/month of the 824. After that, anyone hired up to October 2011 ("protected pilot" group) is in a similar flow through of 35% of each class (824 if 50% but the company is choosing to meter instead). After the protected pilot group (so anyone after October 2011) there are the preferential interviews. If you are in that group, you have some sort of preferential interview at AA. I do not believe there is an obligation to hire anyone interviewed. Ok, You still didn't answer my question. I don't know how many eagle guys there are and Eagle has grown tremendously since 1997. What percentage are eligible to flow through? Or even a rough number. |
Originally Posted by PilotJ3
(Post 1635722)
At least 2000 more.
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Originally Posted by Thedude
(Post 1635719)
Ok,
You still didn't answer my question. I don't know how many eagle guys there are and Eagle has grown tremendously since 1997. What percentage are eligible to flow through? Or even a rough number. I hope this helps. TC |
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