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-   -   Envoy FOs to possibly get $20k retention! (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/87271-envoy-fos-possibly-get-20k-retention.html)

eaglefly 03-30-2015 08:32 AM


Originally Posted by PilotJ3 (Post 1852749)
The only problem is that the "protected pilots" agreement it says that is for anyone on Envoy seniority list before 10-11-2011. They can recalculate the hires after that date, not before.

Other than that I think you're right.

You're assuming that this or any other contractual provisions in your current CBA will survive the consolidation. Don't bet on that. This among other things (like 18-year pay scales) are among the very reasons AAG is putting Envoy in the position it is now in and why it is positioning it for consolidation. They plan to eliminate the remaining uncompetitive aspects of Envoy. It would be counter productive to the acquiring entity to transfer Envoy pilots to a new entity that would acquire its assets and set up and "us and them" situation among the pilots whereby former Envoy have special rights not granted others (or grandfathered to unnecessary higher pay scales).

You can expect that if you choose to transfer at the time of acquisition of remaining Envoy assets, you'll have to accept employment under the acquirers pilots CBA and that includes their pay scales (18-year won't exist), the flow structure then in place or one negotiated to benefit all pilots based on seniority without favor and seniority to be arbitrated. You of course will have the option to decline those requirements and seek employment elsewhere. AAG isn't going to consolidate the dinosaur Envoy (AAG's belief of their competitive pilot labor costs and benefits relative to the industry) and retain all their albatrossian aspects or create a caste system within the consolidated carrier. Your MEC will agree to whatever terms are offered as the other option would be far worse for the pilots.

They will have no choice.

jdflyer1999 03-30-2015 08:34 AM


Originally Posted by snippercr (Post 1852795)
My understanding is that there is no order planned for group 1 aircraft and that Parker even said having the 20 190s is too small to justify the fleet.

No current order.

Parker stated that the 190's will either grow or go away.

eaglefly 03-30-2015 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by jdflyer1999 (Post 1852812)
No current order.

Parker stated that the 190's will either grow or go away.

No order, but under evaluation. Might be a different aircraft depending on the deal and the 190's WOULD go away. They have some time, but not much to bust a move. Right now, they have enough burden introducing and adding new aircraft to AA, not to mention debt. I think a decision will have to be forthcoming by year's end.

chrisreedrules 03-30-2015 09:31 AM

From my understanding, from someone "in the know" (take that for what you will... All I know is this is what they said), AAG and UAL are both looking at "very large" orders of 100 - 150 seat jets to offset the anticipated shrinking of their regionals over the next 3 to 5 years. I know they said UAL is looking very closely at the new Bombardier C-Series, and that an "improved" E-190 may also be an option. They said AAG is likely looking at the same and I would imagine DAL too. I did ask if they knew anything about the MRJ and they said they "didn't know" but thought it would be doubtful mainline would buy anything with the name Mitsubishi attached to it.

buddies8 03-30-2015 12:53 PM

Why is it beneath them?

tvlawyer 04-03-2015 04:02 AM


Originally Posted by buddies8 (Post 1852934)
Why is it beneath them?

Maybe it's because Mitsubishi has never built a safe nor reliable civil aircraft in its history.

billyho 04-03-2015 05:24 AM


Originally Posted by tvlawyer (Post 1855183)
Maybe it's because Mitsubishi has never built a safe nor reliable civil aircraft in its history.

C-Series! Bombardier needs orders. Perfect plane for American

Cujo665 04-03-2015 05:35 AM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 1852844)
From my understanding, from someone "in the know" (take that for what you will... All I know is this is what they said), AAG and UAL are both looking at "very large" orders of 100 - 150 seat jets to offset the anticipated shrinking of their regionals over the next 3 to 5 years. I know they said UAL is looking very closely at the new Bombardier C-Series, and that an "improved" E-190 may also be an option. They said AAG is likely looking at the same and I would imagine DAL too. I did ask if they knew anything about the MRJ and they said they "didn't know" but thought it would be doubtful mainline would buy anything with the name Mitsubishi attached to it.

AAG announced weeks ago they were looking at their E190 operation. It was either going to be discontinued, or greatly expanded.

tom11011 04-03-2015 06:36 AM


Originally Posted by Cujo665 (Post 1855235)
AAG announced weeks ago they were looking at their E190 operation. It was either going to be discontinued, or greatly expanded.

What about the 195? When you say 190 do you also mean 195?

PublicPhone2 04-03-2015 01:38 PM


Originally Posted by PilotCrusader (Post 1852139)
Someone made a post to say that Envoy has too many pilots and not to come here. Just wanted to share the other half of the paragraph the other OP did not, because it looks like FOs may get $20k. It deserves its own thread as much as the other topic does.

Okay folks, it's time to stop hiding behind the chainsaws
GET OUT NOW, GET IN THE RUNNING CAR
ENVOY BOOGIE MAN IS COMING FOR YOU!!
BWAAAAAAHHAAAAAAAA
https://youtu.be/Yrrw0wNLc2g


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