Originally Posted by Dorn

I'm not going to try and sell anything, but I feel like I need to debunk a common statement I keep reading. This whole 14 year flow thing. AA DID NOT HIRE at all from 2001 till January 2014. If they don't hire they don't flow. So making it sound like once someone gets here it takes 14 years to flow is distorting what is happening now. That's like zooming in on ones stock portfolio in 2008-09 and saying if you invest in the market this IS what will happen, and ignore all the great return that happened post recession. The last decade was the " Great Recession" for us pilots but Look at the big picture. If you come to envoy you will more than likely flow simply due to the mass retirements that are upon us. Or if you choose you can apply to other airlines, like any one else, and get hired and move on. It's pretty simple. We're nothing superior when it comes to contract, pay, etc pretty middle of the road, but having a guarantee job, whenever it happens, with a mainline is kind of nice. My 2 cents.

Originally Posted by Dorn

I'm not going to try and sell anything, but I feel like I need to debunk a common statement I keep reading. This whole 14 year flow thing. AA DID NOT HIRE at all from 2001 till January 2014. If they don't hire they don't flow. So making it sound like once someone gets here it takes 14 years to flow is distorting what is happening now. That's like zooming in on ones stock portfolio in 2008-09 and saying if you invest in the market this IS what will happen, and ignore all the great return that happened post recession. The last decade was the " Great Recession" for us pilots but Look at the big picture. If you come to envoy you will more than likely flow simply due to the mass retirements that are upon us. Or if you choose you can apply to other airlines, like any one else, and get hired and move on. It's pretty simple. We're nothing superior when it comes to contract, pay, etc pretty middle of the road, but having a guarantee job, whenever it happens, with a mainline is kind of nice. My 2 cents.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

Nothing is guaranteed in life, especially a job.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

Nothing is guaranteed in life, especially a job.

Originally Posted by sublime259

Most FO's that I know would not take JetBlue, Sprit, VA, or Frontier even if offered that job right now. A year ago would have been a totally different story. The reasoning is quite simple and it's not that envoy is better then those LCC's. If you desire a career at a LCC (and likely remain forever junior as they all have very young pilot groups) then go for it. Not me.

Originally Posted by Cujo664

^^^This

If you are an 8 year or below FO at Envoy and move to JB, Spirit or Frontier, then you've just made a critical error. If you stay at Envoy, then you'll be at AA within 4 years minimum and have a long career at the largest legacy airline in the world. Why do you think we are starting to have a line of folks knocking on the door trying to get in here? Hint: It's because starting at Day One in Indoc, the countdown clock starts and they will be on AA property within 6 years.

Originally Posted by FirstClass

The Envoy flow is fabulous for those on the property for the last 16 years. But we have to keep them new hires coming in to make the whole pyramid scheme work properly!!