Envoy questions
 

Last time i posted this within an envoy thread and got no replies so sorry for starting a new one but I would like these questions answered.


Alright, SO what is the current length of time one could expect to be on reserve?

What are the call out times? short and long if you have it.

Is the 2.5 year upgrade and 6 year flow really going to be a reality.( and yes I have read this is expected to happen with the upcoming flows leaving.)

Any other information I might be want to hear about?

I know piedmont you are able to put your inlaw in your travel benefits if you only have one parent is that the same at envoy. ex father passed would like to add mother in law

Thanks for the responses

Currently, forever (4+ years) on reserve

2 hour call out, except NY but that is closing in about a month. No long call reserve at envoy, per Ric Wilson and company who currently refuse to negotiate a new reserve section of the contract to bring it in line with FAR117. Instead they make up their own rules to impose on reserves, and change them on a whim.

The 2.5/6 could happen. That is, if they don't slow down flow AND they can somehow find a lot of new hires. Right now they are only banking on the flow to attract new hires and nothing else. Well, there is a miniscule new hire bonus, but it is no better than every other airline. They refuse to provide a monetary incentive, and rather rely on a promise that could happen but also might not.

Travel benefits are the same for all three wholly owned airlines, which is essentially the mainline travel policy.

Current length of time on reserve is inexcusable and otherwise what BL says.

The 2.5 and 6 is still being pushed by the company. While the vast majority of us raise the BS flag regarding the feasibility of those numbers, it is technically possible - and remember, they only need one flow selection group to hit that mark for it to be true. They could be bracketed by 3 year upgrades and 7 year flows. Currently ENY is planning on hiring 400 next year. If they can achieve this goal it's going to be good to be a new hire at ENY. Problem being, like everyone knows, there's a shortage of hireable pilots, so unless there's a merger (bad for stagnation) or another carrier fails and dumps pilots on the market it's going to be tough to pull pilots in.

We're overstaffed, so pilots flowing off the top should result in better schedules and higher time lines for everyone.

Hey hey last time Ric said 2.5 and 5.5 to AA...

Probably weren't answered because Envoy is in a very dynamic state of change. It's like asking PDT their future BEFORE they got the order to double their fleet with new jets.

Tough question because it can ba answered two ways. Do you want the current time on reserve, or the time a new hire should be on reserve?
Reserve is currently 4 years. However, FO's can not currently bid jet to jet so new hires will be getting the E175 shortly and it is a growing fleet type so time on reserve will be very short. Likewise, the expected time to upgrade is dropping rapidly and if their plans are accurate then if you are upgrading in roughly 2.5 years your time on reserve should be short.

The entire reserve rules section is being rewritten currently, and with the staffing crunch hitting all the other carriers there is little interest in anything other than an industry leading RSV program. Other than that I think most would rather take it to the arbitrator since ALPA has rarely lost grievances over seniority violations.

Their projections are based on only needing 15 new hires a month. Last month we did 28, and this month we're doing 13. 2.5 / 6 are just math problems, and if you take current numbers and extrapolate them, their numbers work. I'd expect some variation here and there; but they are banking on AA flow creating the drive to keep their regionals staffed without having to significantly raise pay. To do that it has to actually work. Thus far to date this year their numbers show that close to 70% of all AA new hires came from Envoy. In the last 3 years we sent 1/4 of our pilots to AA, and that was before the retirements really began to pick up which happens this year. Next year they are projecting at least 300 will flow to AA from Envoy. That is expected to continue.

It's a good time to be an ENY or PDT pilot.

Right now I'd put PDT and ENY on your short list. My only concern at PDT would be the fleet type. I'm not a PDT guy, but I wouldn't be so excited about getting jets that everybody else is trying to park. The other guys are all parking them for a reason.

envoy reserve times are only so high today because we have had nothing but contraction and stagnation for the last 4 years. We are overstaffed in preparation for the Embraer 175 Training Bubble and due to the fact that AAG planned on us being a much smaller company than we are. Since we have pilots and PSA, Mesa, TSA and RAH cannot hire enough pilots to fulfill their unrealistic air service agreements. envoy is getting a lot of those flight hours back.

The next four years will be a vastly different environment than the last four years have been. envoy is the ONLY company that can guarantee that about 1/3 of their Captains will be leaving next year for a Major Airline. This will be in addition to those who are getting hired via the traditional interview route. NO regional airline can guarantee how many they will hire. Those two variables will greatly impact the amount of time a new hire will spend on reserve and in the right seat. Guys like Bob Loblaw, who do not even work at envoy anymore love to question the flow but there has not been even one month that AA has hired on the AA side of the Us Air merger that they haven't flowed guys over. We are now flowing to both the AA and Us Air operations. We are currently exceeding the 50% required amount of the flow. The flow is THE recruiting tool of choice for AAG, they will not stop the flow. Given the current environment of limited new hire pilots, I think the likelihood of a non wholly owned airline going into bankruptcy is greater than the flow stopping at envoy.

Again, to reiterate, the only airline that can guarantee that 300 of its Captains will be leaving next year is envoy and that is half of the factor in determining how long a new hire will sit on reserve. In fact the last time that envoy hired as many pilots as they are projecting for next year, the reserve time was only a few months. No one can say whether or not they will meet those projections, only time will tell.

You will not find many regional airlines with a long call reserve. A 2 hour call out is pretty standard. We do have a pretty well regimented call out process and it is very easy to track your current "probability" of getting called and plan your commute accordingly. Occasionally guys have been burned for doing this but about 95% of the time you are successful and you won't get in trouble for the other 5%. We currently do not have Preferential Bidding for line holders and we have a proffering system for the reserve pilots which both mean a greatly improved QOL and paycheck. Something that many of the other regionals do not offer. My friends over at RAH consistently lose 5 - 10 hours of pay a month due to their lack of cancellation pay.

I had a similar situation with my family travel benefits. Foremost, if travel benefits are important to you. NO regional has better travel benefits than envoy, PDT or PSA. I was once told that I can have one "FATHER" and one "MOTHER" on my travel benefits and they really don't care if they are biological or not. Just that once that person is chosen, its there for life. I would think that in the current LGBT Politically Current Culture, no one would question the "fact" that you have two mothers.

It isn't so much the pilots not wanting a rewrite, as the company unwilling to do so. Performance numbers have been high since they began making up their own reserve policies (but I think it's more due to being over staffed) and as such, are not willing to change that since they don't really care how we feel about anything. The arbitration process might work in our favor (or might not [turnbacks]) but it will be YEARS before it is resolved there [LTFO].



The only way it works is with new hires, which currently, there aren't many out there to hire. Ric said he wants 400 in just over a year. That's nearly double "only needing 15 new hires a month". Also, despite having a temporary slow down, we are still losing aircraft. I'm glad they are flowing more than the minimum, but that is only happening now due being over staffed and them wanting the high priced pilots off the payroll. I wouldn't expect it to last much past the 824, as we hit their staffing goal and pilots on the new pay cap.

Aren't you sending 1 e145 to Xjet for every E175 you get to DFW? So how is it a new hire wil have a short time on reserve, if you are only changing a fleet type? My friend just spent the last 4 years on reserve, and just now got a line this month. I'll believe it when I see it.

That is true of every regional airline. They all depend on new hires to facilitate movement. At least envoy can guarantee movement off the top. How many low time PSA Captains do you think will be leaving PSA in the near future?


Got any stock advice as well? Maybe some medical advice? AAG has in, no uncertain terms, stated that they will use the flow as their primary recruitment incentive. I'm sorry if I put more confidence in a Major Airline CEO who has the operational control to make the flow happen saying that it is the means he will use to attract pilots to his regionals over some disgruntled regional airline FO.

That is the best way to make sure that you are on the back side of the wave.