Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 2070500)

I keep thinking they are kicking the can (one of their specialties) until later this year when they are freed up from constraints regarding the last of their synergy components like SLI, "rightsizing" hubs, pilots PBS, etc. at mainline. This will play directly into what they want/need to do with their regional network, which again IMO involves streamlining, consolidation or even possibly branching out into a different reality to some degree with larger aircraft (possible with the correct chess play).

Until then, it would seem to make little sense in big moves and instead simply a enabling process of band-aiding the operation until THEY are ready to make the moves I suspect are being finalized about several issues. I think some surprises are coming starting in mid Summer into the end of the year.

Just my .02 as always............

Originally Posted by cr700 (Post 2070688)

I think it's pretty obvious that you've got an axe to grind with Envoy. Seriously, are you upset that it took you 20 years to flow? Most guys flowing now will be in their early 30's, some may even been in their late 20's with the 6 year flow, giving them a full career span at the premier major carrier in the U.S. Maybe that is what's giving you heartburn, I don't know.

What I do know is that AAG has recognized the need for reliable feed and believes that keeping it in house is the best way to give pilots what they want. A career path from Day One. Envoy management isn't "out to get the pilot group." They are in fact, trying to help facilitate a pilots career expectation by offering them a clear, and very brief path to AA.

Try to remember, this isn't AMR anymore. It's AAG and with that comes a whole different executive management team. One that literally does what they say they are going to do. If it weren't for AAG, Envoy wouldn't have the robust flow that we have today.

In addition, AAG is positioning Envoy to be the premier regional carrier in the U.S. We'll likely be operating all 175's within 5 years or less. Kind of beats those crappy, loud 19 seat turboprops you were probably flying back in the 80's.

Envoy guys just need to be patient and let AAG's plan start working. It already is in fact. 30 Envoy pilots recently just transferred to AA with no interview and no new hire process. Just a transfer. Being wholly owned, you are already part of American Airlines and it's just like moving from the CRJ over to the 175. Just a transfer.

Originally Posted by cr700 (Post 2070688)

I think it's pretty obvious that you've got an axe to grind with Envoy. Seriously, are you upset that it took you 20 years to flow? Most guys flowing now will be in their early 30's, some may even been in their late 20's with the 6 year flow, giving them a full career span at the premier major carrier in the U.S. Maybe that is what's giving you heartburn, I don't know.

What I do know is that AAG has recognized the need for reliable feed and believes that keeping it in house is the best way to give pilots what they want. A career path from Day One. Envoy management isn't "out to get the pilot group." They are in fact, trying to help facilitate a pilots career expectation by offering them a clear, and very brief path to AA.

Try to remember, this isn't AMR anymore. It's AAG and with that comes a whole different executive management team. One that literally does what they say they are going to do. If it weren't for AAG, Envoy wouldn't have the robust flow that we have today.

In addition, AAG is positioning Envoy to be the premier regional carrier in the U.S. We'll likely be operating all 175's within 5 years or less. Kind of beats those crappy, loud 19 seat turboprops you were probably flying back in the 80's.


Envoy guys just need to be patient and let AAG's plan start working. It already is in fact. 30 Envoy pilots recently just transferred to AA with no interview and no new hire process. Just a transfer. Being wholly owned, you are already part of American Airlines and it's just like moving from the CRJ over to the 175. Just a transfer.

Originally Posted by cr700 (Post 2070688)

I think it's pretty obvious that you've got an axe to grind with Envoy. Seriously, are you upset that it took you 20 years to flow? Most guys flowing now will be in their early 30's, some may even been in their late 20's with the 6 year flow, giving them a full career span at the premier major carrier in the U.S. Maybe that is what's giving you heartburn, I don't know.

What I do know is that AAG has recognized the need for reliable feed and believes that keeping it in house is the best way to give pilots what they want. A career path from Day One. Envoy management isn't "out to get the pilot group." They are in fact, trying to help facilitate a pilots career expectation by offering them a clear, and very brief path to AA.

Try to remember, this isn't AMR anymore. It's AAG and with that comes a whole different executive management team. One that literally does what they say they are going to do. If it weren't for AAG, Envoy wouldn't have the robust flow that we have today.

In addition, AAG is positioning Envoy to be the premier regional carrier in the U.S. We'll likely be operating all 175's within 5 years or less. Kind of beats those crappy, loud 19 seat turboprops you were probably flying back in the 80's.

Envoy guys just need to be patient and let AAG's plan start working. It already is in fact. 30 Envoy pilots recently just transferred to AA with no interview and no new hire process. Just a transfer. Being wholly owned, you are already part of American Airlines and it's just like moving from the CRJ over to the 175. Just a transfer.

Originally Posted by AdiosMikeFox (Post 2070733)

Conspiratorial management plant/envoy salesman cheerleader here!



What? Seriously, WHAT? Out of all the posts I see here this one completely seems like an ENY/AAG PR rep piece. "...reliable feed...career path...positioning envoy to be the premier regional..." All corporate-speak.

I cannot believe what I'm hearing from management, or the previous poster.

All last year, despite the negative Nancys, AAG looked to be holding true to what they said they were going to do in regards to ENY's flow and future.

• They reduced the number of departing aircraft
• Returned some flying with the promise of additional hours returning this spring
• Had a small upgrade with the promise of more to come in rapid succession starting this year
• 2.5 to CA and 6 to flow for the newhire hired TODAY (today being the late summer/fall of last year).
• Despite the devastating effects of shutting down all but two domiciles we got small returns like hotel rooms and an extended commuter policy (still a sh*t deal, but better than nothing)
• Bumped up the flow in accordance with the arrival of the 175

What they've actually done this year:

• Failed to gain additional flying
  This will be changing in the future heavily slanted in Envoy's favor. AAG has to balance the system when it comes to regional feed and it all depends on the capacity available to them at that particular time.
  
• Failed to upgrade
  Look for an upgrade bid very soon. As you know, as Envoy pilots flow, they have to be replaced. This requires upgrades.
• 2.5/6 is essentially impossible. They could hand out AA numbers to us and that still doesn't qualify as flowing - we are supposed to get 50% of EACH CLASS, not 100% into a pool. Unless there's some miracle in the works there's no way to cram the full required flow through the AA training center (Due to Letter T returnees, July slowdown and December shutdown of the AA training facility for newhires) much less our own training center to meet the upgrade target.
  They are following the contract. The 2.5/6 is based on the MINIMUM flowing which in the most recent case is, 30.
• Metered the flow to less than 50% with the unfathomable excuse that the departure of the pilots would disrupt operations despite having zero time and part time lines, line values sub-70 hour average along with 35%+ of the pilot group on reserve. Bull ****
  Metering is allowed by the contract even for forseeable future events. It's likely that when the 175 flying spools up, they are seeing a greater need for qualified pilots in those seats.
• Returning Letter T pilots may/may not make "truing up" flows at the end of the year per our contract physically impossible
  Letter T pilots will be making their decision in April. Then we will know how many will be coming back. The company has to true up at the end of the year. It's contractual.

AAG/ENY has done an about-face and returned to their BS and failed promises. Last year I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Wait and see. Things were looking OK, people could start moving up and out. They were holding up their end of the bargain. The actions of the company this year make liars of them. ENY is just another crappy regional at this point, arguably worse than others in some ways. But hey, it's just a transfer to AA, right?

OK Mr./Ms. AAG/ENY PR rep, tell us how AA/ENY are going to surmount these issues while remaining within the bounds of the contract and arbitrated awards? If it were possible, I think we would have been told by now, and it would benefit hiring because people would see that we were moving ahead - but this is not the reality that is presented by ENY. Do tell, cr700, how this will all be made right? I was one of your supporters last year and we've all been let down. Tell me why I'm wrong, point by point.

Originally Posted by Aviatrx (Post 2070767)

Just received an email asking for iPads to be retrieved from the CPO. So much for being mailed to your house

Originally Posted by Aviatrx (Post 2070767)

Just received an email asking for iPads to be retrieved from the CPO. So much for being mailed to your house

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 2070500)

I keep thinking they are kicking the can (one of their specialties) until later this year when they are freed up from constraints regarding the last of their synergy components like SLI, "rightsizing" hubs, pilots PBS, etc. at mainline. This will play directly into what they want/need to do with their regional network, which again IMO involves streamlining, consolidation or even possibly branching out into a different reality to some degree with larger aircraft (possible with the correct chess play).

Until then, it would seem to make little sense in big moves and instead simply a enabling process of band-aiding the operation until THEY are ready to make the moves I suspect are being finalized about several issues. I think some surprises are coming starting in mid Summer into the end of the year.

Just my .02 as always............