I've been accused of being an ax grinder before both against Envoy and/or their present pilots. I'm neither. I think present Envoy pilots deserve far better then the same old B.S. of the past, but all I've seen IS the same old B.S. of the past perpetually reconstituted. All I've done here is wave a flag at what I see as B.S. against those trying to sell that as righteous truth to the unwitting or "something new". Fact is, if I truly had an ax to grind against your carrier, I'd preach not going there under ANY circumstances or leaving for ANYTHING else. I don't believe either to be the case. For some, even with Envoy's situation, it might be one of the better choices to consider as a future stop. For some there, I understand many are simply too committed to move laterally and thus unless a decent LCC or legacy calls, they're along for the ride.

NEITHER situation changes the fact that the promises made regarding 2.5/6 (or better) which you have joined in selling are anything remotely dependable or accurate. The math simply doesn't add up. That is becoming more clear by the day. You can continually pull the string in your back about 30 flows last month, but that means nothing regarding the future. I think it's also painfully obvious the present management there thinks very little of their pilots by virtue of making a mockery of the very contract they themselves agreed to and what message does that send to those there or not yet there about the future ?

As for the flow, your claims are bunk. The fact is that regardless of the management teams in place, what is occurring now is a requirement based on an arbitral award and they are now sharpshooting that to bare minimum benefit to Envoy pilots and most importantly to note it is being done, WHEN IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE and again what message does THAT send to present and future pilots ?

I don't think you are aware of just how ridiculous you look coming on here within the last week or so as though you are trying something new. The fact is several there have done this before for months now, but it appears at least most of them are starting to get it too. What either of us say here won't change the situation either way at Envoy as that will be a result both of other forces that cannot be altered like the near dry supply of entry-level Regional pilots and the undeniable fact of just how Envoy pilots are treated there which is abundantly obvious based on the very pilots themselves essentially saying life at this carrier has never been worse. At least that's the message I get. It's the message getting out there by many or even most present Envoy pilots. If your management truly wanted to make an honest effort to maximize their future situation, they'd start living up to their contractual agreements and negotiate mutually acceptable changes with a different attitude that they have. This carriers reputation is not based on what is said from those that do not work there, but those that do and unless and until THAT changes, Envoy's name will be mud, at least IMO and that has nothing to do with me or anyone's ax from the outside.

You broke it, you fix it and if not, then expect a predictable future.

Both. The two are intertwined. For the record, I'm not claiming any crystal ball, but let's just say I believe there will be some significant changes in the near future.

I just totally cleaned your clock with facts and this is all you have to respond with? You are just disputing the 2.5 year upgrade/6 year flow (under 6 years by the way) by throwing a molotov cocktail into the crowd with no real reasoning or facts to back it up. Sounds to me like someone who is just bitter about spending most of their younger years at Eagle, flying a turboprop no less while current Envoy guys get to fly a mainline style aircraft on the same routes AA does and get to upgrade in 1/10th of the time you did and flow in likely 1/50th of the time it took you.

New Envoy Information
 

First off, you have no facts. Second off, if you knew anything about flying for a regional, you'd know that the type of plane you fly is pretty much everyone's lowest priority. It goes up, it comes down. Lots of people would actually prefer that 19 seat turboprop that takes skill to fly over a 175 that does everything for you. Third, you can't possibly be a pilot with that bad of math skills. It has not taken people 300 years to flow to American. But it might for you.


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In the latest bit of good news from the union, according to AAG's own announced fleet plan, they will be violating APA's scope clause by the end of 2016 unless changes are made to remove seats or regional aircraft.

Envoy can kiss those 175 options goodbye.

Or, flying can be taken away from other places and given to Envoy. I think Envoy will get their 175's, but the frames will be cut from someone else.

Look at all of the new airplanes that PSA and Envoy are getting. Now look at how much new flying they are doing. Almost no new flying, but lots of new airplanes. Look for non-wholly owned companies to start to lose flying and WO companies to pick it up.

Haha. Yeah, not sure why the FAA needs another test. I am interested to know if they intend to pay us for EFB training or if this will be another volunteer effort

Yawn. The only thing you cleaned was any doubt about your objectivity. :cool:

Hey Lucy, do us all a favor and show your math to support your claims. Specifically, show us Charlie Bucket's (May 2015 hire) monthly path to a December 2017 upgrade and for that matter (since it's still the representation), Charlie Brown's (January 2016 hire who just arrived to take a run at your football) Summer 2018 upgrade. Then, mold both into their <6 year flow to AA.

Nobody gives a damn about your feeble attempts to distract everyone into grumpy old eaglefly's past, they want supportable figures to validate the claims. So come on young lady............give the present and future Charlie's the info they care about.

BTW, snippet's won't do, detailed specifics are required.

Your move.

They'll have to be birds AAG owns.