According to your logic, whether or not it drops to 33% or not is pure speculation and shouldn't be discussed.

824 Flow Through

x Upon delivery of the first EMB-175 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no fewer than 30 per month (subject to the 50%), shall go to Envoy pilots until a total of 824 Envoy pilots have flowed through to AA.

“Protected Pilots” Hired By Envoy On or Before October 11, 2011

x Upon delivery of the 40th EMB-175 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no fewer than 25 per month (subject to the 50%), shall go to such Envoy pilots, until the next pilot to be offered a flow through opportunity was hired after October 11, 2011.

Pilots Hired By Envoy After October 11, 2011

x At the point in time when the first pilot hired after October 11, 2011 is offered a flow through opportunity, if AA is hiring pilots, 35% of all AA new hire training slots, no fewer than 15 per month (subject to the 35%), shall go to Envoy pilots.

Pilots Hired After DOS

x The lesser of (a) 25% of all AA new hire training slots in that calendar year, or (b) five new hire training slots (increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the Envoy master seniority list) times (“x”) the number of calendar months in that calendar year in which AA actually hired pilots, shall go to Envoy pilots.

Exactly. It's contractual and 50% of the classes HAVE to be Envoy pilots. We are essentially AA pilots to begin with, it's just a matter of transferring over to the other side. Some on here can't seem to get that AAG has to flow, HAS to contractually. 50% of the AA classes.

We have a 2.5 year upgrade and a 6 year flow. It's a fact. Refute it if you can. But you know it's impossible.

Tomorrow you may not as no one can guarantee that.

No one. That is what a new-hire at Envoy today needs to understand.....and also that AA will not be retiring 700 pilots/year this year or next. I believe the numbers are substantially less, but I'd LOVE to move up 1400 numbers in the next two years.

whacka-whacka-whacka-whacka-whacka.........:cool:

I'm not sure who this guy is (although I kinda think it's eaglefly just arguing with himself!) but he's the only one on here saying that 2.5 yr upgrade and 6 year flow is fact. It's a projection. That being said, as much as we all love to hate AAG and not believe what they say, this projection is well on it's way to reality.

So for all you potential new-hires considering PSA with the possible chance you may make it to AA, do your homework. If you want to go to DAL or UAL, do your homework. Those who are getting calls at the other big 2 are well more qualified then PSA will ever get you in the next 6 years (plus they don't have that giant blackmark on their resume that says "PSA.") If you want a future at a LCC, knock yourself out.

Personally? I'm content hanging around here for a little bit and then spending the next 30+ years at the largest airline in the world.

I think there were not enough "crazy envoy salesman" so eaglefly had to create his own. Whoever Cujo664 is, he is clearly trying to disguise himself as Cujo665 so that nothing Ray says will be taken seriously.

In any case, the only argument eaglefly can make is there is "no guarantee". You can pick any subject in the world and make that claim. For thousands of people of around the world there is no guarantee they will be alive tomorrow night (accidents and whatnot).

I have been actively applying at the Big 3 for the last two years, having met or exceeded every competitive criteria with a perfect training history and I have yet to get a call for an interview. It would be one thing if I had interviewed and turned down but I am not even getting the chance. I know its a matter of time, there are thousands of applicants to get through, but I sleep much better at night knowing when my AA FT number comes up (which should be in about 12 months), if UA or DA haven't called, I'll be in class. That is a lot more of a guarantee than, "maybe today they will call." And if one of those company do call me to interview in 6 months, I will be a lot more relaxed knowing that even if they turn me down, I still have my number at AA.

We all have to choose our own course. We all have the responsibility to ourselves to choose that course and live with the consequences of those decisions. Personally, I think it would be foolish to base a career decision on the word of a faceless internet screenname. eaglefly, Cujo665, me or otherwise.

I endorse envoy because I believe it has a lot of value and that Parker is sincere in making it the fastest course to AA (because it saves him money). Parker will never stop the flow because that will only make his regional staffing worse. For that reason, I don't think envoy will ever pay as much as RAH's new contract either. I think they will eventually have to add some additional financial incentives, Parker will do whatever is necessary to staff his regional carriers but unlike Bedford, he is not limited by his CPA revenue stream. In an extreme case, I could see E175 and additional E190s at AA flown by former envoy pilots. As Parker himself has said, "We have no problem finding pilots for American." If that is what it takes to staff his jets, I could see him doing so. They already have the training programs, maintenance and ops specs in place. It would be an easy transition. A more expensive alternative to the low cost regional model but if the pilot market forces his hand, he will do it.

When I started Flight School, Comair, Eagle and AWA were the places to be. Now today, a former Colgan Lifer has the chance to go to Delta, former Value Jet pilots fly for Southwest and many Midwest pilots are asking themselves, "What the hell happened?!" There are definitely no guarantees in this profession but the contractual provision of envoy's Flow under Parker is a better guarantee than, "Maybe United will call today." And you can still pursue all the other opportunities that your regional pilot counterparts depend on as their only option to move on.

If someone chooses to listen the vague rants of eaglefly and daoldman, so be it. But that person will only have themselves to blame if in 6 years when they are saying to themselves, "Maybe Delta will call me today." And even if the flow did stop, that person would be in the same position they would be in if they went to RAH, SkyWest, TSA, waiting and hoping for that phone call.

So much wisdom from Sublime in this one that I think it's important to point out a few gems:

1. Apparently the larger carriers not only have the resources to differentiate the different applicants based on their company's collective pilot group votes of the past, but are even able to separate two candidates (PSA and Envoy for instance) who's pilot groups BOTH voted yes recently, because their hiring department should be capable of discerning the "honorable" yes vote of the two. Right...

2. PSA's quicker relative movement, upgrade, and check airman opportunities some how makes those pilots LESS qualified for positions in the big leagues. Ok...

3. This invisible "black mark" that only Sublime can see apparently does not affect prospective hiring in the LCC carriers, supposedly they are just letting "anyone" walk in these days, right?

Very well said and my thoughts exactly.

Have you ever heard of the Captain's Board? United always have one of their pilots present during the interview process.

Between 1995 and 2001 several Eagle pilots left for TWA without giving their 2 week notice... care to ask what happened to these pilots when AA acquired TWA?

I get your point. United has many 1989 Sc abs working today seemly unphased by their decision to cross the picket line. But this industry is smaller than you think. I am proud of my time at Eagle. I can hold my head high as I tell people how I repeatedly voted no to Parkers threats while PSA's MEC formally stated, "If Eagle says no, we'll do it." You will probably get a mainline job one day. In fact, you will probably be the first one to jump up and yell Sc ab at someone when they do to you what your union did to the Eagle pilots. Justify it however you wish but when you are an old man, in the quiet spaces of your own thoughts, you will always know who and what you really are.