I'm 100% with you that the flow is excellent. I greatly look forward to flowing and am grateful it is in our contract. I don't want to talk people out of coming here, I want to talk them into it. But I'm not going to lie about things. You, however, appear willing to lie. Trying to fix it, really? As if they aren't in total control and couldn't fix our problems last year before they started. Instead they've let our QoL get worse and worse every month while continually claiming "things are about to get better." We were told after the summer flying died down that schedules would improve, and here they are, worst in our history.

I'm sick and tired of people arguing that Envoy is a terrible place to work. Is it perfect? Hell no. But neither is Skywest, Expressjet, Compass etc. I've had a great time here, work with great people, it is industry average pay, great travel benefits, and i have the flow to fall back on. Schedules can be improved but i would not call them terrible, mostly cause i was not here back in the Eagle days but it works for me. Reserve is less than a year and things have been picking up with hiring which will help a lot of people get better schedules. BTW once you're a line holder trip trading is your friend. I got a great schedule with good credit by trip trading.

You can be sick and tired of it all you want but you don't know any better!
There is a reason the original eagle guys say the things they do, that's how bad things have gotten! They refuse to change it even when it costs them nothing....

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. 11 day off, 4on/2off lines are the norm now, and they are terrible. They are unprecedented here, or anywhere.

Look I'm ****ed too. With Kirby out the real guy in charge and isom in the new guy in charge the one who open ny, next Miami, threw cash at everyone and wants 40/Mo flow next year. That guy went to aa planning or his direct associates and they literally changed the route network to fix the awful schedules. It's a big change and takes time. Our union has said all this in recent emails. They also said January we will see it. Hang in there. We are on a long term path and it's good for everyone.

New Envoy Information
 

I'm not with lakehouse on this one (yet). I've heard too many rumors and promises that turned out to be a pie in the sky. Yeah, we got a NY base and a pay bump, but for those two that turned out to be true how many scores of rumors have we heard that turned out to be crap? I'm not placing any faith in "it's gonna get better", we've literally been hearing that about our schedules for about a decade. If it were true, we'd have had 2 on, 5 off 89 hour lines by now.

When it happens, it will be real. Until then, if you look up in the sky you're likely to get **** in your eye.

Is ENY the worst place to work?

No. The NY base and raise has definitely been an improvement. It's still not the airline we used to be, though.

I'm not interested in selling anything we might be, only what we are. Anything else is just a rumor.

I think outside attrition will stay pretty high.. this year around 5 CA's a month on average have left to other Majors. Most are waiting for the flow, but many (myself included) don't particularly want anything to do with AA and their management style for another 30 years if it's possible to go somewhere better first. Or for some people the domiciles work better with other airlines so those guys will still try to go elsewhere. DAL/UAL are hiring a lot. SWA contract is much better now. Hiring will be increasing in 2017 even more across the board.

With FO's I think many will continue going to LCC's to get away from these horrid schedules and bad QOL here instead of waiting around for the flow. FO's are regularly getting hired at UAL/DAL as well every month. Not a lot of them but a few. Then some others are just quitting the industry all together because it sucks for family life and all the other BS associated. 10-20/mo attrition outside the flow is very likely, if not a low estimate in the 2017 hiring environment. In my opinion.

I agree there won't be mass losses like the last couple years of shrinkage and beatings, but plenty of people are still leaving for upward moves. AA is probably the least desirable Legacy to work for (other than domicile choices) that work for many of us. They have the worst contract and work rules by far currently. Hourly Pay "rate" at AA is decent but the contract, QOL and soft money compared to what the the other big 2 carriers get is not good at all. Days off, QOL, actual W2 pay and management treatment are much worse than at DAL/UAL. The trend of AA turning into a giant low cost carrier with no more regard for QOL is also scary. I don't hear of guys at Delta with 11 and 12 day off trash schedules. AA has more and more of them lately. Don't get me wrong, it is obviously still way better than Envoy and I will definitely go, and look forward to getting out of here and going next year, but it isn't my top choice, that is for sure. It's plan B if all else fails.

How will having LGA and MIA back help DFW and ORD? In what way?

Can I tell Scheduling to hang in there when I want to go home and see my wife and kids?

Well said.