Airline Pilot Central Forums - Skywest vs. envoy

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- Envoy Airlines (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/)

- - Skywest vs. envoy (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/91946-skywest-vs-envoy.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Check Complete (Post 2018590)

Other things to consider:

Even though new hires aren't sitting reserve for very long, at some point you will upgrade and you will sit for years on reserve as a Captain. SkyWest reserve is a unique kind of hell that has no real description. On reserve at SkyWest, you will be treated on a sub human scale. Of all the people that I've run into that left SkyWest for a total different career left because of the way they were treated by SkyWest on reserve. If you come here consider yourself warned.

Training failures, have been mounting and are climbing higher, as a percetage. There has been a total turn over of training department management and there is little room for issues. Many new ground and sim instructors that have zilch experience. Lots of new LCA's again with little experience. Until you have finished your IOE your CP cannot help you, you are at the mercy of some new training department micro manager that is out to make a name for themselves.

If I was in your position, flow would have a lot of weight in my decision.
The upgrade at SkyWest is at least 3 years and things could change over night and come to a grinding halt.

There is no way I could bunk up with another person for 2 months, SkyWest only offers rooms with 2 guys in them, nice way to start your "first class career"!

I'm senior SkyWest, I would go Compass, Envoy, Republic in that order.

Nailed it!
Add up the above and B.Rs abrupt departure to a corner office over at UAL. As well as the 41 year CEO announcing his handing over the reigns to the chimpmeister means the winds are shifting. What direction? Who knows, but now that the major consolidation is in the books, no one knows what the regional side is doing, until it happens.
The absolute best choice is to do whatever gets you through the regional morass as fast as possible. It's like swimming with electric eels, it's not,if you get shocked, it's when.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motoxer517 (Post 2018681)

Ok wel then can you please add to the discussion what you think would be more accurate? Thanks

See my response to his post. I think most are happy here. All those I know who jumped ship from other airlines say Skywest is leaps and bounds better than where they came from. There is no way I would commute with no chance of being home-based. Where in CA do you live?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motoxer517 (Post 2018681)

Ok wel then can you please add to the discussion what you think would be more accurate? Thanks

Skywest training is easy. Extremely watered down, you only have to know basics. Our failures have increased... from about 1percent of new hires to 5 percent (better than average industry wide). That is due in part because we have lowered our hiring standards.

In the time I've been here I've moved up right around 500 spots every year. skywest is upgrading 37 pilots every month for the foreseeable future. We are hiring 100 a month. Those numbers are suppose to increase in 2016 with all the new planes.

Movement? Check
Good company culture? Check
Decent pay? Check.

And for this guy he lives in a Skywest base... why wouldn't he go with them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GojetForever (Post 2018678)

Skywest is the only real option in the regionals.

Envoy will view you as a piece of meat and not as a person. Skywest will treat you with respect.

Flows are designed to keep those who are senior and about to leave in their current position at the regional an extra year or 2. Flows are a way to pay people without it costing any money. Flows have been around for 30 years and usually end before the actual flow occurs. In 1987 there was the Pan Am Express flow that ended when it was sold to TWA. A few guys flowed but they all could have gone to a major at the time anyway.

How long did the eagle guys sit before they flowed?

I would steer clear of any regional besides Skywest. I expect most future contracts to go to Skywest. Delta, United, American, and Alaska all seem to be sending their flying there and very little anywhere else right now.

From what I gather it seems like as a reservist are sitting so long that they will be passed up when it finally is time to open the flood gates, it's not about how much time you have per say but how that time is acquired, and also the process and way that you get that time, thanks for your input

Quote:

Originally Posted by word302 (Post 2018692)

Got it thanks, I'm near LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motoxer517 (Post 2018697)

Got it thanks, I'm near LA

I would definitely narrow your search to Compass and Skywest. Commuting to reserve is a special kind of hell. LAX is Compass' junior base I believe and likely attainable at Skywest a few months after training. Nobody is going to give a damn about flows in a few years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by word302 (Post 2018699)

I'd second that recommendation.

I do not believe in all this my regional is better than your regional rhetoric. Both seem to be good options.

Don't get sucked in by long-term promises. The entire industry is a giant pyramid scheme. Everyone is dreaming of becoming the super senior 787 capatin who only works 3 days a month but very few people will get there.

I'd pick whoever you are comfortable with now and you think you are comfortable with if you get "stuck" there for more than a couple of years. You'd be surprised how many lifers are at regionals - and almost none of them joined with the intention of becoming a lifer.

As for flows, I can easily see those backfire in a couple of years. If hiring at the majors really picks up as everyone expects it to there will be a real incentive for AA to reduce flow from the regionals. Why canabalize your regional pilot pool if you can hire of the street from "competitors"?

Flows serve one purpose only - lock-in. Once you put in 3, 4 or 5 years you will think twice to jump ship or rather hang on for that coveted flow. If pilots truly become a rare commodity it won't matter anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1234 (Post 2018779)

This^^^

The industry is changing so fast that no one knows what is going to happen in the next year. Barring another economic or terrorist event, it should be a great next few years for pilots looking to move beyond the regional industry.

As for flows, they aren't a good reason in and of themselves to go to an airline. They do provide some continuous movement as guys off the top leave, generating upgrade opportunities for those less senior. But I wouldn't come to a regional based solely on that. The fact is that anyone coming to one of the AAG wholly-owneds is looking at 6-10 years to flow. And so much will change between now and then, who knows if the flows will even still exist.

And reserve everywhere is its own special kind of hell. Don't be fooled. I wouldn't say it's necessarily any better at regional A over regional B and personal experiences being on reserve can differ greatly. Guys in my class have had to sit hot reserve almost 30 or so days now. I've only had it twice in a year. And I was used a lot in reserve so for me, reserve wasn't that bad. Ask the guy who has had at least one hot reserve each reserve period and he would probably tell you different. Bottom line, reserve sucks. Go somewhere where you don't have to sit reserve for long.

Compass has a LAX base with E175s for Delta, but Skywest is bringing E175s to LAX for Delta. Something has to give... Compass already announced the transfer of one E175 from LAX to SEA, so who knows what will happen to Compass in LAX. Everything can change so fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zondaracer (Post 2018795)

I think regardless of what happens to them on the DL side, they'll still have a presence in LA since to my understanding all of their AA birds are based there. Again however, who knows what'll end up happening. Trying to predict the future in this industry is a losing battle. :rolleyes: