Yawn. Same old puff from the smoke plume. Didn't take me anywhere near 20 to flow, not bitter and not even that old (well, to myopic children I am ;)).

Keep puffing if it feels like blowing off steam. My points are valid and you know it.

That is EXACTLY what we were told in 1997-2000.

EXACTLY.

You're never going to get these jokers to buy into reality here. They just hear what they want to hear and believe what they choose. No rational thought. One guy above even says, "those decisions are made by people way higher than my pay grade." That statement by itself is quite disturbing. Lambs willingly going to their slaughter.

I recognize though that 5 or 6 characters here with clear agendas don't represent Envoy pilots thoughts as a whole. They are on a mission and have a purpose and I can't fault them for that. All one can do is offer another POV. It's clear to me in my interaction with most Envoy pilots, they don't buy into this anymore and obviously the bait used at least so far, hasn't resulted in any stampedes there.

If Envoy wants to be the pick of the litter among regionals, they know what they have to do and so far, they apparently don't think that's necessary.

Speaking of flow, has 5727** numbers flowed yet?

So what?

10 years ago it was foolish to believe that.

10 years ago Congress had not mandated the ATP rule. 10 years ago airline retirements forced by demographics weren't looming as they are now (even with the age 65 increase).

10 years ago no one was giving signing bonuses and pay rate increases.

10 years ago there was no talk of "flow" and upgrades weren't happening in less than 2 years.

Like you said, things change.

Today, it isn't foolish to believe a new hire will be at a major within a decade.

Don't be bitter at today's 121 new hires because they will do in 5-7 years what you have yet to accomplish in 10+. That only makes you small and selfish and feeds into the "us vs. them" mentality that divides pilots and harms pilot unity.

Bottom line: just because it hasn't happened for you yet doesn't mean circumstances won't change (hint: they have) and today's new hires will necessarily experience what you've experienced. And don't be jealous if they don't have to endure what you've endured.

Except when that "ace" is actually a joker.

And I'm just saying that 4 years reserve and 8 years to upgrade is an idiot's trade in exchange for that "ace", given what is known to be happening at other employers right now. Even if those times are "going down".

Doug Parker says hi.

......best of luck.

You're going to need it.

He was just pointing out that the same thing that made the flow not work during the lost decade also made "off the street" hiring virtually non existent during that same time period. YOU are the one making it a personal, petty and divisive issue. Just as a new hire today has better chances of getting to a mainline quicker than someone hiring in 2001, so it will be with the flow. Guess you just can't fix stupid. eaglefly and ag386 meet at the Denny's on the second Tuesday of the month, you'll fit in good with that group.

Hey man, you wanna believe in Doug Parker's word, be my guest.

Me, I'd trust Hillary more than Doug Parker.

And that's saying a LOT.