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-   -   How Envoy's 5.5 Year Flowthrough Works (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/93971-how-envoys-5-5-year-flowthrough-works.html)

OkStateBryan 03-18-2016 07:53 AM


Originally Posted by sflpilot (Post 2091400)
Maybe not in your situation but from the beginning I would rather work hard for a handful of years become a millionaire buy my own airplane and live the good life rather than fly for a living.

That's nice, honey.

RyanP 03-18-2016 07:58 AM


Originally Posted by SayAlt (Post 2091289)
So what?

10 years ago it was foolish to believe that.

10 years ago Congress had not mandated the ATP rule. 10 years ago airline retirements forced by demographics weren't looming as they are now (even with the age 65 increase).

10 years ago no one was giving signing bonuses and pay rate increases.

10 years ago there was no talk of "flow" and upgrades weren't happening in less than 2 years.

Like you said, things change.

Today, it isn't foolish to believe a new hire will be at a major within a decade.

Don't be bitter at today's 121 new hires because they will do in 5-7 years what you have yet to accomplish in 10+. That only makes you small and selfish and feeds into the "us vs. them" mentality that divides pilots and harms pilot unity.

Bottom line: just because it hasn't happened for you yet doesn't mean circumstances won't change (hint: they have) and today's new hires will necessarily experience what you've experienced. And don't be jealous if they don't have to endure what you've endured.

People like you you are clueless and don't get the point.

BTW:
Congress could change the laws to who knows what (again)
Retirement Age could increase (again)
Another terrorist attack could happen (again)
Oil prices could go to $200 a barrel and kill this industry (again)
This industry could completely change around and outsource everything offshore like everything else in this country. (who knows)
Another crew of inexperienced immature pilots could crash another plane again (Pinnacle) and change things up all over again. The more I see how some of these quick upgrade inexperienced young pilots are acting lately, the more of an inevitablity this is.

And
Yes there was quick upgrades at the time at some places
Yes some places were hiring street Captains back then
Yes Eagle and Continental Express did have flow in the past

Yes things look promising now, but they have looked promising in the past as well. Ask anyone who has been doing this for a long time though. Something ALWAYS comes along to change the game. Something big is going to change in the future, we just don't know what it is yet. You seriously think the airlines are just going to let the whole system implode due to staffing in the next 10 years, just completely abolish the regionals and hire everyone to work at the big 3? They will do something and change it all around on us again. We just don't know what exactly that is yet.

Nobody is bitter about the new people moving quicker than we did. I hope they do. We are warning people not to count your chickens before they are hatched and think you are automatically a Major Airline shoo-in with a golden ticket. It's not reality. Especially in this highly volatile ever changing career. Having a backup way in is definitely good to have. Over 500 Eagle pilots have used it in the last couple years instead of being still stuck here waiting for those interview calls that never happen for many people. Many of these guys interviewed at United, SWA and others many years ago, and were turned down for whatever reason, but they are at AA now. Thanks to the flow that people like to call useless.

SayAlt 03-18-2016 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by N1234;2091353[B

Go to a place that:



Has a small pilot group (< 800) where the CP just announced 40 new hires and 24 CA upgrades per month indefinitely. Assuming 2 years...

40 x 24 months = 960

A new hire will be at the top of the seniority list in less than 2 years.

AdiosMikeFox 03-18-2016 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by sflpilot (Post 2091400)
Maybe not in your situation but from the beginning I would rather work hard for a handful of years become a millionaire buy my own airplane and live the good life rather than fly for a living.


Go for it.

Tell us all how well it works out for you.

If not, lay off the useless advice that isn't going to change anyone's situation. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. It has no place here, unless you wish to start discussing hypotheticals, then I'd love to say we should all win the lottery and get a cushy Wall Street job. Then we can fly for fun our P-51 that we had restored and G-5 to Paris for lunch.

SayAlt 03-18-2016 08:03 AM


Originally Posted by AdiosMikeFox (Post 2091423)
Go for it.

Tell us all how well it worked out for you.


Worked out great for me.

Went to college, got a degree in finance, went straight to the trading floor, then retired in my 30's. Now I fly professionally...because I can, not because I have to.

It happened because I had focus, ambition, and goals at an early age.

If anyone else didn't, they should blame themselves and no one else.

And no one wants to hear them cry about it, either.

SayAlt 03-18-2016 08:06 AM


Originally Posted by RyanP (Post 2091420)

People like you you are clueless

Yep. That's me. CA Clueless. I wish I could change my screen name just to mock that comment.

LOL

bedrock 03-18-2016 08:10 AM


Originally Posted by SayAlt (Post 2091426)
Worked out great for me.

Went to college, got a degree in finance, went straight to the trading floor, then retired in my 30's. Now I fly professionally...because I can, not because I have to.

It happened because I had focus, ambition, and goals at an early age.

If you didn't, blame yourself and no one else.


Hey, you are a hobbyist, good for you! You are also now a member of the tool of the month club!

SayAlt 03-18-2016 08:12 AM


Originally Posted by bedrock (Post 2091433)
Hey, you are a hobbyist, good for you! You are also now a member of the tool of the month club!

I fly just as professionally with the same serious focus as anyone who needs the job.

"Hobbyist" is simply a term of jealousy. Anyone who uses it is the real TOTM.

boiler07 03-18-2016 08:18 AM

I'm not sure if there are any envoy pilots left posting in this thread haha

Skyvector 03-18-2016 08:25 AM


Originally Posted by boiler07 (Post 2091437)
I'm not sure if there are any envoy pilots left posting in this thread haha

Which is fantastic. When haters from other airlines start coming out of the woodwork in mass it means the airline in question is doing something right.


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