MrERJ

The original post said "ok airline guys"

Not "xjet or envoy guys"

I have friends who work for both.

Why so bitter?

SydKat

If your goal is to fly for a major/legacy carrier, unless you are a former intern, Captain's kid, or have built 10 Habitat homes, served a mission to the blind in Africa, and studied under Mother Theresa, you're going to need PIC time. Upgrade at XJT (either side) is virtually non existent. In fact, on the CRJ side, they are currently awarding upgrades at 8/mo. but not training them because they need FOs so badly. Captains are being allowed to fly right seat reserve for Captain pay. This special deal was extended by the union until November, and has been building a house of cards all summer. When it ends, downgrades are VERY likely. Upgrade time is currently 9-10 years at our most junior base (13-15 year Captains on reserve). I'm not sure this company will still be in business 5 years from now, much less 10. The regional model is dead, management and the union seem to have no game plan, and the mainline partners are tightening the noose. This is a super senior pilot group, with a good 30% topped out in pay. Payroll that high is unsustainable in today's cost environment. Something's going to have to give. Unless you live in an XJT base and can't/won't move or commute, coming here could be a dead end. I recommend looking at airlines like PSA, Mesa, GoJet, Endeavor, and any other with short upgrade time. The faster you get your PIC and get out, the better. Don't let the haters who regret their choice tell you those are "bottom feeders" and a bad choice. It's all about your career progression, and sometimes you have to take a big risk for great gains.

Good luck to you.

N6279P

100% completely incorrect. Getting hired is about networking and making yourself desirable to the legacy carriers, not PIC time.

Jland0413

Thank you so much for the advice!

SydKat

I assume you're at a legacy carrier then. Congrats! Not all of us got into the industry at exactly the right time like you did.

I challenge you to post some actual stats of regional FOs hired directly to Legacy carriers with no 121 PIC time. Your experience, if true, is great, but I suspect that it's not typical. And it appears the Legacy carriers are moving away from the "networking" (3 job fairs and you're in) hiring model, because *ahem* "the quality of newhires was lacking".

Edit: The comment about habitat, missions, and Mother Theresa was meant to be ironic satire. Unfortunately, many pilots lack a sense of humor. But it's kind of true too, when applications are asking for volunteer experience before they ask for flight time.

Porsche77

So wouldn't you take a big risk to make great gains by going to ENVOY and flowing to AA. ?

SydKat

I don't know much about envoy, but an important question to ask is how long it would take to flow, in seniority.

The "big risk" I was referring to is tossing seniority at a regional and either making a lateral move to another regional, or going to an LCC if the Legacies aren't calling.

AdiosMikeFox

There are risks at any carrier. If someone chooses a carrier without a flow or something like a guaranteed interview they are left slugging it out with everyone else to make themselves marketable. These days that means LoR's, job fairs, being a check airman, president of Habitat for Humanity, and being in the Guard flying F-18's on the side. It's a young pilot's game, most of us stuck from the lost decade have families and other obligations that make it difficult or impossible to meet any combination of these targets.

Or you could be one of the ones that gets lucky; picked up as an FO with a couple LoR's, one job fair and zero PIC.

One could also work on making themselves marketable while working their way up in a carrier that also has a flow or guaranteed interview. IMO this is an option that maximizes potential returns.

After the hiring computer has gone through all the names and offered up the ones with the H4H positions and the F-18 time I think they just throw darts at names on a list to pick a few random people that leave everyone around them wondering how the F that guy got the job at Delta at 25 years old with no PIC.

AboveMins

10 years in at XJT here, on the ERJ side. It's been a good run, and I can't complain, since my QOL has been pretty good, but I can't recommend coming here. My two cents- we're going to be a shell of our former self after 2017. Hell, we already are. Now, if the bleeding of aircraft to TranStates, Commutair, and Skywest stops, that may change, but I doubt that will happen.

FlameNSky

And neither are envoy pilots.