I'm interested to see what management's proposal brings. Few pilot groups have experienced as much turbulence as the Envoy pilots over the last 5 years. A threatened divesture, a bankruptcy, two concessionary contracts, shrinkage, stagnation, and a name change have taken a toll.

Lately the increased flow and bonuses have turned things around a little, but not enough.

I have said for a long time that the pilots have the leverage now. Some people say the flow won't work because they won't park airplanes for the flow. Well you don't have to park airplanes if you make this an attractive carrier. It appears management may be finally waking up to this fact.

It will be interesting to see if this offer is enough to get it done. I'm also wondering if the PSA and PDT folks have heard anything on this front. I'm guessing whatever Envoy gets, they will get too.


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No long call at Envoy. IAH would be fairly commutable from DFW for most hard lines. Reserve rules are really tough, especially for a commuter. Hopefully that will change soon.


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I commute from the west coast, mid level seniority on the equipment. The schedules are definitely not what they once where, but I am able to commute to work and home the same day that I start and finish.

I'm looking at flight schools right now. I've got 25 hours.

With all this new info coming out...the Envoy profile needs to be updated in the airline profile section.

Not until it's official.

Do you know what the new pay is going to be? I'm just wondering.

$85 /hour first year pay and the new hire bonus has turned into a Mercedes Benz C-class.

Hold out for E class or better I say!

I'll man up and say it..."there is no better time to be an envoy pilot" lol

OK, where are all you haters? Nowhere to be found it seems. Because you've all been proven wrong that's why. I've said before and I'll say it again right now. Envoy is being positioned to be THE premier carrier for AAG. Notice I didn't even say "regional" carrier. With the 175's we have with more to possibly come soon, we are more of a "national" carrier now.

With AAG recognizing the value of our reliability and infrastructure, they have responded accordingly. Even Captains are getting a retention bonus. Why someone would consider bailing for Jetblue, Alaska or some other low end LCC is truly beyond me at this point.

We are going to 40 per month flow which will put a new hire at AA in FIVE years or less. You read that right. FIVE years from brand new hire to the cockpit of the world's largest airline. Not a single regional outside of Envoy can put up these numbers. Our new hire classes were already growing monthly and projected to keep increasing. With these new pay rates and retention bonuses, we are likely going to have to turn some away or put them into a pool as we can only train so many in a month.

You haters aren't going to be able to refute any of this or cast more doom and gloom. We are truly flying in clear skies and climbing at Envoy today.

Maybe the haters were just waiting for you to post?

Haha I'll take it!

Will these pay changes only apply to envoy? Or will the other WO's get something too?

As a PSA pilot, let me just say that I hope envoy pilots are, in fact able to lead the regional airline pilots to the next, more profitable, more desirable, more sustainable level. I hope you guys kick ax and take names! The better you do,...... the better we ALL do!

The only thing we "hate" is all the "hate" we've been taking from our bothers over at envoy and ExpressJet over the past 3 years.

National carrier. Baaahahahaha that is some funny ****. You are still a regional.

I don't care what the company tells me it is going to do. I only concern myself with what the company has done and is doing.

Did you forget that low pay was only one of many grievances?

QOL is still a major issue here.

Thanks...I have to admit it is a little weird to hear that from a PSA pilot (if you admit that the better one pilot group does, the better we all do, then surely the reverse is true? And hence one shouldn't undercut other groups...?).

Anyway, so far this seems like good news. Better (years) late than never.

When you run the #s, in some scenarios you make more money over a lifetime by heading to another major instead of waiting X years to flow. Or they have bases in a place where you want to live.

Envoys flow amounts don't last forever. They greatly curtail as milestone wickets are hit. It may be the best deal for some but won't be for everyone.

This is true. Hopefully this and the EFB LOA are first steps in the right direction. Cautious optimism.

Side rant. Nothing to see here.
 

If these top execs at AAG had to wear these uniforms for just 1 hour, heads would roll. My god these are cheap POS's

Actually, the best time to be an envoy pilot is the day you turn in your company ID, knowing you will get a new one that says American Airlines the next day, and then drinking an ice cold beer with a huge smile on your face because you haven't kept a logbook current in over 10 years and you never spent a penny at a job fair!

The contractual flow numbers are minimums. If AA needs pilots at mainline, we go. 8300 retirements over the next decade at AA alone. Strangling the flow to keep 145s flying at the WO's would mean parking A-319s at AA, plus it would trigger an exodus among junior pilots after they decide to bail for real opportunities. Unless AAG mgmt is completely daft, when push comes to shove, they'll park 50- and eventually 70- and 76-seaters at their regional partners and then subsidiaries or bring them up to AA. Either that, or increase our compensation to the point that it's more expensive to outsource than do it yourself.

Popcorn is ready...

Currently the flow is a minimum #/%. After the December 2014 hires hut it becomes the lesser of 25% or X, just like PDT and PSA.

I'm not a flow hater at all. It's a great tool that I wil use if I end up going part 121 and don't end up at a major directly when I make the jump. Unfortunately Envoys flow terms are different for those hired today than they were for those flowing now.

The new uniforms are a significant improvement from the POS VG Imagewear whatever crap we have. They actually feel like real clothes. I've heard a lot of complains of the shirts but mine are actually just fine.

Details are forthcoming, but first year compensation will be competitive with Republic.

Wow that's huge
Everyday Envoy sounds better and better to me. Can't wait to start school and interview later.

Focus on getting your certificates and ratings, it's a lot of work! You're probably 2 years out...

Wait, let see if envoy pilots have to give up anything for management's generosity.

That is true but the greater flow percentage for those in front to them put them closer to their flow date faster. Ultimately meaning for a new hire today, the longer you wait to start class, the longer you will wait to flow.

Also keep in mind, that the current multi-class flow program has evolved through several modifications into what it is today. You can expect that during the next round of contract negotiations, the company will create another "class" of new hires boosting flow rates for those hired after the Protected Pilot Group but before XX/XX/2018 hire date and then it goes back to the lower rate. Then in a few years, they will do it again and again.

Nothing about the flow prohibits an employee from pursuing employment elsewhere. An envoy pilot can still network, attend Job Fairs and get hired at a LCC or a Major airline of their choice, including AA.

Looks like AA is getting new uniforms, do the WO not follow suit? I thought I read something about ENY/PSA/PDT wearing AA wings...

Yup. We all look the same starting sept 20th

I believe that while the WO will have the same wings, they are not the same as mainline.


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Amen to that!

Pilots Uniforms same, wings a little different, f/as same as Aa wings/uniforms .. Sept 20, start date..

It's actually going to get pushed back from 09/20... Over 5,000 employees have had to return uniform items and haven't received them back yet. Hundreds have yet to even receive their uniform at all. It simply isn't going to happen.

Better yet, the flow allows an envoy pilot to NOT have to network, make fun of people who attended job fairs, not feel compelled to suck up to anyone at the majors in hopes of getting a letter of recommendation, not have to keep a log book current, not have to worry about busting a PC, not have to worry about that day when you were told to write down a phone number. In fact, the only thing an envoy pilot really needs to worry about is making it to work on time.

A couple years ago I thought about updating my resume, but I got tired just thinking about it and took a nap instead. Get your apps in to envoy guys! Life is too short to spend your entire regional experience contemplating canned answers to TMAAT questions.

This, and actions will speak louder than words. This company doesn't have a great track record lately. A pay bump doesn't take care of lousy schedules, low time lines, inability to transfer bases, and the like. There are tons of QOL issues that are unresolved, or simply just ignored. Just because there's a rumored demand for much higher flow doesn't meat the company can or will meet the mark for said flow.

It isn't happening until it actually happens, or it's written in the contract. Even that last part doesn't work so great here sometimes.

1 year of Aerosim training and 1 year of working as a CFI to R-ATP?

That is the great thing about the AA flow. You have an additional choice. I have flown with some FOs that have said that they have no interest in playing to "Mainline Interview Rat Race", that is their choice and its OK. I usually recommend that a person tries to get hired by any company they would like to retire from. At least they have the choice.


Mesa, SkyWest, RAH etc. They do not have a choice. All they have is one option and they get to hope that they are selected among thousands of other applicants. The flow may not be a 100% guarantee but is still more of a guarantee than the interview game.