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PSA ftw nuff said except whack bases but that's just how it is. Commute and know this isn't your last stop. Unless you're old.. then I don't really have much to say to help ya out.. if you're from a kush 135/91k job stay there if you make a bunch of money and home every night because this part of the aviation world gets tough on the qol period wherever you go.. whether you commute or not you're only saving like 2-3 hours at home don't let them fool you.
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Originally Posted by BizJet
(Post 2243156)
I know there are a lot of these vs threads, however with the deluge of information it's hard to compare the two.
I'm an ex XJT guy looking at getting back into the rat race. I've been trying to decide between PSA and Envoy based on my current residence. Envoy: 121 Preferred Interview. E.g. no tech or system questions. HR only. Already 145 Typed DFW has 10+ flights daily from my current residence with almost 100% schedule certainty. ORD has 3/4 during the travel season going to only 1 floater during the winter. Reserve looks like it sucks on the 145. Almost three years!!?? Also I'm not to kosher on the whole JM'ing nonsense. 175 isn't possible as I'm very young. The recruiter told me it's age based in class and based on my age it's practically impossible. I refuse to commute or move to LGA. That's at best a two leg commute. Which I did at XJT and it sucked the life out of me. CRJ is going away in 2017/18. Upgrade is about 5 years?? PSA: Full interview as I didn't meet their 121 requirement. I'd have to move to base unless I got CLT out of the gate. CLT has about 3 daily flights depending on the month. SAP once I'm R1. Reserve is under a year depending on base. R1 right under a year and dropping at the DAY junior base. No reserve BS if I've read the threads correctly. Upgrade in about 2. Basically, Envoy is the best for commuting and PSA is the best for short reserve and SAP. I'd love to have the best of both worlds but that's fantasy. |
Originally Posted by Duck Sausage
(Post 2249387)
PSA ftw nuff said except whack bases but that's just how it is. Commute and know this isn't your last stop. Unless you're old.. then I don't really have much to say to help ya out.. if you're from a kush 135/91k job stay there if you make a bunch of money and home every night because this part of the aviation world gets tough on the qol period wherever you go.. whether you commute or not you're only saving like 2-3 hours at home don't let them fool you.
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Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 2249393)
8.6 million pilot pay cut coming 2019 to envoy if pilots do not accept pbs.
It has been proven that finally paying up is what needed to be done to staff their airline. A large pay cut would be a deathblow to everything they have done so far. |
Originally Posted by DuckSausage
(Post 2249387)
whether you commute or not you're only saving like 2-3 hours at home don't let them fool you.
Live in base and you never have to check a flight load again. You never have to check the weather to see if a flight is going to cancel. You never have to use a day off to get to work because of an early show the next day. When you are on reserve, you sit at home, or play golf, or go fishing, or see your family, or run a business, or whatever - you're HOME. Trust me, commuting means a heck of a lot more than 2-3 hours. |
Originally Posted by Binksy
(Post 2249523)
If only this were true. Commuting means hoping to catch that one flight you really want and need at the beginning and end of every single trip, every week. And if you don't make that one, scrambling to catch Plan B. Sometimes that will mean getting home a day later and sleeping in a crew room. Or you may have to come in the night before to start a trip with an early show. Do either of those every week coming and going and it gets old real quick. Not to mention if you are on reserve, you have to be in base for five days typically and they may not use you once. That means you are stuck sitting around a crash pad (which you are paying for btw = less income) bored and wishing you were home.
Live in base and you never have to check a flight load again. You never have to check the weather to see if a flight is going to cancel. You never have to use a day off to get to work because of an early show the next day. When you are on reserve, you sit at home, or play golf, or go fishing, or see your family, or run a business, or whatever - you're HOME. Trust me, commuting means a heck of a lot more than 2-3 hours. |
Originally Posted by chrisreedrules
(Post 2249577)
In the past 2 years I can count on one hand the number of times I've missed a flight. And I have never had to stay a night in base after a trip ended. And sleeping in crew rooms is for FAs, pilots at the WOs have hotel money. Even when I was flying a build-up line, my trips at PSA were commutable out of CLT. Commuting is better for my quality of life. 5 minutes from the beach, 7-8 flights every day (and that's just on AA), no state income and much lower cost of living compared to living in base. Reserve would of been better living in base, but I was only on reserve for a few months. Go somewhere with short reserve times and it will be a moot point.
All that being said I'm sure living in base is absolutely fantastic. |
Commuting sucks, stop kidding yourself.
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Thanks for all the replies guys! Apologies on the late reply, it's been a super busy holiday week.
I've interviewed at both and I've decided that PSA is the better outcome. Envoy just seems like I'd be hating life within a short amount of time. I take no pleasure in being JM'd or kept out for extended amounts of time by throwing in 30 hr overnights. I can hold a R2 line or within very short order out of training at PSA. I'll be taking a 3k bonus hit by going to PSA, but it seems I can make it up. The flow is just a back-pocket item. PSA was very honest that the flow is 20+ years if everyone flows and about 6-8 years if you factor in non-AA hires. PSA said that Envoy will be equal to them in short time after the 824 and protected pilot groups flow. I'd love to be able to go back to my 145, but the insane reserve times and horrible schedules make it an easy no decision. |
Living in base is pretty awesome.
A few weeks ago I picked up a JRM. 18 hours TAFB for 14 hours pay. Can't do that as a commuter. |
Originally Posted by chrisreedrules
(Post 2249577)
In the past 2 years I can count on one hand the number of times I've missed a flight. And I have never had to stay a night in base after a trip ended. And sleeping in crew rooms is for FAs, pilots at the WOs have hotel money. Even when I was flying a build-up line, my trips at PSA were commutable out of CLT. Commuting is better for my quality of life. 5 minutes from the beach, 7-8 flights every day (and that's just on AA), no state income and much lower cost of living compared to living in base. Reserve would of been better living in base, but I was only on reserve for a few months. Go somewhere with short reserve times and it will be a moot point.
Even being generous let's say you spend four hours on each end of your trips waiting on the flight and then actually flying into or out of base. That's eight hours per trip. 4 times a month is 32 hours a month minimum. 12 months a year and you're looking at just under 400 hours a year, and that's best case scenario. I don't know what your time is worth but mine is precious to me. Not to mention commuting pretty much rules out several good lifestyle options: day trips, picking up open time on short notice for extra pay, and bidding reserve intentionally so you can work less and be home more. I'm not saying don't do it, but if I have the choice, I know what I'll take. |
Originally Posted by Reservist
(Post 2249600)
Commuting sucks, stop kidding yourself.
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Originally Posted by chrisreedrules
(Post 2249577)
In the past 2 years I can count on one hand the number of times I've missed a flight. And I have never had to stay a night in base after a trip ended. And sleeping in crew rooms is for FAs, pilots at the WOs have hotel money. Even when I was flying a build-up line, my trips at PSA were commutable out of CLT. Commuting is better for my quality of life. 5 minutes from the beach, 7-8 flights every day (and that's just on AA), no state income and much lower cost of living compared to living in base. Reserve would of been better living in base, but I was only on reserve for a few months. Go somewhere with short reserve times and it will be a moot point.
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Originally Posted by BizJet
(Post 2249606)
Thanks for all the replies guys! Apologies on the late reply, it's been a super busy holiday week.
I've interviewed at both and I've decided that PSA is the better outcome. Envoy just seems like I'd be hating life within a short amount of time. I take no pleasure in being JM'd or kept out for extended amounts of time by throwing in 30 hr overnights. I can hold a R2 line or within very short order out of training at PSA. I'll be taking a 3k bonus hit by going to PSA, but it seems I can make it up. The flow is just a back-pocket item. PSA was very honest that the flow is 20+ years if everyone flows and about 6-8 years if you factor in non-AA hires. PSA said that Envoy will be equal to them in short time after the 824 and protected pilot groups flow. I'd love to be able to go back to my 145, but the insane reserve times and horrible schedules make it an easy no decision. Good decision. Congrats! |
Originally Posted by BizJet
(Post 2249606)
Thanks for all the replies guys! Apologies on the late reply, it's been a super busy holiday week.
I've interviewed at both and I've decided that PSA is the better outcome. Envoy just seems like I'd be hating life within a short amount of time. I take no pleasure in being JM'd or kept out for extended amounts of time by throwing in 30 hr overnights. I can hold a R2 line or within very short order out of training at PSA. I'll be taking a 3k bonus hit by going to PSA, but it seems I can make it up. The flow is just a back-pocket item. PSA was very honest that the flow is 20+ years if everyone flows and about 6-8 years if you factor in non-AA hires. PSA said that Envoy will be equal to them in short time after the 824 and protected pilot groups flow. I'd love to be able to go back to my 145, but the insane reserve times and horrible schedules make it an easy no decision. |
Originally Posted by moon
(Post 2250140)
Good luck, but reserve time at Envoy is 1 month in ORD.
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Originally Posted by moon
(Post 2250140)
Good luck, but reserve time at Envoy is 1 month in ORD.
I'm not totally sure, just asking. |
Originally Posted by moon
(Post 2250140)
Good luck, but reserve time at Envoy is 1 month in ORD.
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Originally Posted by Nevada
(Post 2249397)
$100 says you're under the age of 25.
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Originally Posted by Reservist
(Post 2249600)
Commuting sucks, stop kidding yourself.
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Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 2249393)
8.6 million pilot pay cut coming 2019 to envoy if pilots do not accept pbs.
PBS was introduced at XJT and I loved it. Mainly because I was reserve and I could play with the system to see what days off I should bid. I could see where it could hurt lineholders as XJT was still doing line bidding off excel like spreadsheets. |
Originally Posted by BizJet
(Post 2250577)
Why is that?
For the record the company's savings over the 10 year deal was 0.1% of one quarter's profits at the time. And they were supposedly willing to shutter the airline over that. |
Originally Posted by ORDinary
(Post 2250609)
Because it is in our contract, because that's how much savings they think they'll get with PBS. Our last contract passed because management threatened to shut down the entire airline if we didn't vote yes. It took over a year of fighting and threats and 2 pilot votes but it eventually passed.
For the record the company's savings over the 10 year deal was 0.1% of one quarter's profits at the time. And they were supposedly willing to shutter the airline over that. |
Originally Posted by Lvlng4Spd
(Post 2250576)
It's not bad at a WO. I did a 2-3 leg commute to ROA and CHO for 4 years. Now it's 1 leg usually and it's easy as pie. As I've stated before, even my wife has commuted most months to hang out in base with me on short stretches of time off. I have a dedicated airport car and it's like a little adventure. Meanwhile, we live where we want, low taxes, and I've paid down 30% of my mortgage with my triple premium and training efforts this year.
Live in base, and bid reserve and it's practically a part time job most of your career. Either you don't know what your missing or your kidding yourself. |
definitely would be tough with kids. If you can live in base then go for it. I just think commuting is the nature of the beast. What happens when you move to base and your kids are in middle school with a good church to attend and huge network and you get snagged by a major. New base and another relocation?
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Originally Posted by slinger
(Post 2250154)
Wasn't that just one guy? I thought that it's really like half a year or more (maybe not LGA).
I'm not totally sure, just asking. |
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