While ASA did not wholly buy XJET, ASA was in a much better position finically than XJET. ASA had been generating strong profits for years while XJET had been bleeding cash like crazy. Obviously this is not the pilots fault, as management is to blame, but the attitude that ASA had nothing to do with the ability to purchase XJET is a bit exagurated. Skywest Inc is where the profits flow, so of course that's where the money comes from when all the outstanding stock is purchased. The strong profits from ASA thus played a role in the acquisition. If it wasn't for the whole surejet fiasco, the name expressjet and the certificate would no longer exist. I'm sick of all these legacy expressjet guys I bump into acting as if they "saved" ASA and they run the show.

The company formerly known as Asa, did not have the ability to purchase another company. The purchase was made by Skywest inc. plain and simple, and not open to interpretation. Skywest inc, then decided to merge ExpressJet with the former Asa. This is all public knowledge and published information from the documents that Jerry and co. put out at the time of the purchase.

Let's look at the facts and you decide:

The CRJ side is losing aircraft (700's that went to gojets), and now potentially losing 200 flying.

The company already decided that there will not be a flush bid due to training costs, and the precedent set by Pinnacle.

Because the ERJ side is significantly larger in numbers, there's nothing that can keep us from decertifying ALPA (see USAir east), and stretching this out for years if the outcome of SLI is not fair. The company knows this, and although integration is not part of their process, rest assure they will have influence over it.

In a fair system, seats and bases will be protected, possible seat locks and fences to go with them; and everyone will be unhappy! It's that simple really. Nothing else will be acceptable. Don't like it? Find another job, but regardless of what formula they use, this will be the outcome.

I understand the gist of your ideas... just for reference, here are some specific numbers by carrier (Numbers are about 3 months old and do NOT account for recent retirements, deaths, medical outs, etc...)

Between 2013 and 2015 here are retirements:
Southwest-379
AirTran-50
American-326
Delta-432
United-1236
US Air-654
Alaska-85
FedEx-412

(I don't have numbers for Jet Blue, Allegiant, Virgin America, etc...)

TOTAL: 3574

That's just within three years

There are only 4419 pilots at the new XJet combined... lets say VERY conservatively that the top 25% aren't going to leave (too old, don't want to start over, too much of a salary loss, etc...) That leaves approximately 3314. For the next year and a half, there are several hundred who will not meet ATP mins (1500) and for an even longer period of time, will not meet mins for Delta, UAL, etc...

Let's say the legacy carriers DO hire one for one to replace outgoing retirees... 3574 over 3 years and 6730 (total) over 5 years will decimate the regionals. So yes, I do see movement in a big way.

Just for perspective, 6730 is ALL pilots from the New XJet, GoJets, Compass, CommutAir, Air Wisconsin, PSA, and a few from Eagle ;) COMBINED

Food for thought

You know, you make some valid points until your last sentence. However, I don't know of anyone here at the ERJ side that thinks Expressjet "saved" ASA. That sounds pretty ridiculous.

You do seem pretty bitter about the name change though.

If it makes you feel better, I'm pretty sure the company's were merged onto the ASA certificate, just that the name was changed. So technically your certificate still exists, just with our name on it.

The reality is that Skywest was financially strong enough that they could have bought Expressjet whether or not they had previously purchased ASA. They amount of cash they have right now is actually a little less than the cash they had on hand when they bought you, so had they not purchased ASA, they'd likely be in about the same spot. So while you make a valid point that ASA was part of Skywest when Skywest bought expressjet, it's not roaring profits from ASA were the only enabler of the deal. In fact, has not the Delta CPA been really bad for you guys over the past few years?

----- Nevermind, figured it out.

quick question for CRJ side peeps. I recently got picked for a random pee test during a trip. Do we get paid for this? If so, how do I go about getting paid for it and how much do they owe me? I see nothing on sked plus or the rainmaker

Delta buy a pilot group ? Wow, I've heard it all! Lol..guys get this through your wishful thinking hard heads: THERE WILL NEVER BE A PILOT SHORTAGE AT THE LEGACY AIRLINES. The regional currently have plenty of supply for several decades. The regionals are worried about staffing and you think THEY are going to sell a pilot group? Come on guys think about it!

I believe this to be the opposite. ASA Captains overall have much higher longevity than XJT Captains, therefor would prefer DOH and vice versa for FO's.

I have actually spoken with a few from xjet who do feel like they saved Asa (crazy, as most of us know). I could careless if we use the expressjet name, is far better than surejet. I only brought this up because of the whole savior mentality, ie: the name of the company is also expressjet so we bought asa not the other way around, kind of thinking. I also am well aware that skywest had hundreds of millions in the bank pre Asa and also pre XJET, my point was that Asa actually contributed to some degree through strong profits, unlike XJET who had been loosing money year after year. While airlines seem to stay alive for decades no matter how much money they loose, the writing was on the wall, XJET was on course for a possible ch 11 if it's luck did not turn around, stem the bleeding, and produce profits.

To goaround2000, get a reality check, the rest of the company isn't on edge to throw out alpa over some SLI disagreement. No one wants a usair situation. NO one, you talk as if you think the XJET pilot group will just bully a parent company and all their employees to get what they want no matter what. If everyone over there has your shortsightedness we are all screwed.

The CRJ side is losing aircraft (700's that went to gojets), and now potentially losing 200 flying.


This is true for now. however, ASA side might be getting the pinnacles 900's, if not all 16, and the new Delta TA will allow for larger aircraft to replace the 50's. There will be a fence, so no bidding to other a/c or base for a few years. With that said, Delta could just take all of the 70/90's, along with the pilots to mainline, and grow the larger RJ's Thus being flown by Delta pilots. This would cut training cost and Delta would have a continuing work force without interruption. This could start a trend for all majors to follow. Either way this Delta TA is good....

I just hope they can come up with something remotely fair. I'll vote on that. No growth will happen til then, so let's just get this done. And no, I'm not drinking any coolaid.

Do you see any irony in your statement?
Fact: ASA would not agree to fly the 8 700s at a loss. GoJet agreed to.
Expressjet lost flying for many more than 8 ERJs to continental. After failing a self branded operation, expressjet came back and agreed to fly the ERJs that it lost to continental at a loss (aka gojet style).

While this sucks, it's better than parking those ERJs all together. It's just funny how you bring up that ASA is in trouble because of the loss of 8 700s when XJET already had to deal with the same situation.

For the last time, the company formerly known as Asa had absolutely nothing to do with the purchase. In fact that was part of inc's argument for scope circumvention. This is all public information. It's a merger, you got our name we got your lame call sign, you got our uniform, we got your logo. There is a give and take. That being said, you're the one that needs a reality check if you think votes don't count when it comes to TA's and SL's. The majority can decertify ALPA, that's a fact.

You're either new and naive, or you're one of the disgruntle 6 year f/o's salivating at the opportunity to get on any left seat. Either way, the company already said no flush bid due to training costs regardless of the SLI, so say hello to fences to protect not only seats, but bases.

It's not paid. They usually nab u at the end of a trip for those tests anyways. It sucks at takes up about 20 min of your time. It's regulatory and mandated by the government, so that's probably why they get away with not paying us to do a drug test. I'm not sure if any airline pays u to take a **** test.

I really hope the l-ASA side starts growing more. As I've said before, I really want to get back to Atlanta, not to mention several great friends I have that are middle-pack FO's I'd like to see upgrade eventually.

If there is a fence for "several" years I'm going to be really depressed. I was hoping that I'd have a shot to be back in Atlanta within 2 to 3 years tops of being hired at expressjet. If it takes another year before SLI and another two before having the chance to get back home that's going to put me in a tough spot.

Ours does.

Pilots arguing about the financial decisions of upper management is like the execs arguing over whose pilot have smoother landings -- pilots don't buy airlines and we pretty much have no control over the fate of our employer. Our career is a deadhead and all we can do is hope the guys up front end up taking us where we want to go relatively unscathed.

It's only happened to me 2x in 6 years. So 40 wasted minutes isn't really anything I've even thought about before, for pay. I'm usually more irritated at the 3 hour airport breaks between turns that happens all too often...

Exactly right

It's too bad the CRJ guys don't get that!

Not true on 20 min. You have to report outside of security, go upstairs in the atrium, sign in and take a seat, get called to the back to perform the test then you are released. Now it takes about an hour from the time you get notified at the gate till you get back to catch the bus or a/c home. This will more than likely happen at the end of a 4 day and might even cause you to miss your last flight home. And no you will not get paid. Although you should...

I agree completely. I was just sayin... ;). Recently we've had what seems like a lot longer sits / duty days as we've merged the continental and united flying. Every so often a break is nice, but it gets old and most of us would rather fly as much as possible and be done, obviously.

Captain? Been at the regionals longer than you ever imagined? Just because you're bitter doesn't mean you should close your eyes and mind. You're fooling yourself but that's fine, stay that way and be sure not to submit any apps the the legacy carriers. That'll be one less person I have to compete with. (If you are at a legacy carrier already, become another statistic and just retire already. Doesn't sound like you're someone I'd like to fly with)

It's too bad the CRJ guys don't get that!

Yeah, totally accurate to lump all CRJ pilots together like that.

Goaround, I enjoy your comments greatly. There is such a calming tone to your posts. We should get together, have a beer and maybe talk religion and politics .

For us we have a guy that follows you from the plane to a room right by our crew lounge, it takes 20 min and it's only you there, then you leave and get on the bus to the lot. I guess they do it a bit differently in Atlanta. I agree with you though if it's taking hours to do this, then that blows.

The SLI will follow ALPA's guidelines. After the jcba each side will try and reach a mutually agreed on solution. I believe that process is either 30 or 90 days. If no agreement is reached, which is highly likely, it goes to arbitration. There's no need to argue who bought who, who saved who, who's better looking, or whose call sign was worse, the arbitrator will take this all into account when deciding, and hopefully 80 percent of us will hate it, and we can move forward and be one harmonious group.

I love p1ss1ng matches. Hey did you know mines bigger than yours?

Ours used to be like that - now it's a minimum 40 minute proposition.

We don't get paid, but at least call scheduling, claim the per-diem and extended duty day. If you were getting duty rig for the day already, then the extended duty day for the **** test should get you paid more. Also, don't forget you have the option to request an off-site facility....

ROFL, apparently you can't say p.i.s.s.

And how long would arbitration take? Is it potentially forever or is there some time limit or precedent for a reasonable time frame?

Because we are both alpa there is a time limit

Do you not know how to use the internet?

Multiple post 20 minutes apart that are the same and always removing who the quote is from?

Don't try to make sense from that guy. Just let him ramble and enjoy the comic relief. :cool:

at 3:16 goaround2000 responds


bottom page'd so again at 3:40 goaround2000 responds



troll much?

And that time limit is?

Has anybody seen a proposed single list yet? I would like to see what it might look like based on an interpretation of the ALPA guidelines.

For the love of god, please tape this and make it into a 60 second or less video. Then you can both enter it in the "This is My Expressjet" employee film series!

I'll vote for you so that you may win honor, or prestige, but not both!

Did anyone else have their blood pressure skyrocket when they saw this? I mean, is this the same lady who brought us SureJet?


Nyan Cat [original] - YouTube


I can't wait to submit mine. I'm just going to put my face on the cat because that rainbow shooting out of the cats poptart pooper, is the same rainbow the HR lady sees while staring off blankly into space coming up with more ideas to waste time and money and validate a degree.

I've heard that the max is 180 days from start of the talks til the judge rules when we can't agree.