Originally Posted by PBSG (Post 1525630)

You mean.....reality?

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 1525621)

Not on the ASA side. TA is a little better than current book overall.

Originally Posted by skigambia (Post 1525608)

Here is my dilemma, everything the no voters have said is accurate. There are concessionary aspects to this contract, which is an incredibly tough pill to swallow. I get sick at the thought of our mainline partners awarding 20+% raises, significant profit sharing checks in addition to an already disproportionate pay scale, but this contract, if approved, would still be the leading regional contract and the envy of every other connection carrier. As much as I would have liked to see the "bar" raised, is it realistic, or even attainable to expect anything better? After all it is "Industry Leading"! Im not a young, naive pilot, nor am I a lifer, and I honestly don't believe management is playing games. I would love this moment to begin a ground swell of support to get rid of ALPA, not because our MEC's failed us (they did better than every other pilot group in the industry), but because national sold the regionals out years ago.

Originally Posted by PBSG (Post 1525640)

-Assignment of vacations

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 1525621)

Not on the ASA side. TA is a little better than current book overall.

Originally Posted by unit monster (Post 1525645)

That's your opinion. Fact is, this TA could cost me significantly.

Let's hear where we made gains..?

Originally Posted by Redbird611 (Post 1525657)

It sure doesn't look that way on my first pass.

Originally Posted by Redbird611 (Post 1525657)

It sure doesn't look that way on my first pass.

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 1525659)

Pay rates (I know small, but gains), Per Diem, Sick accrual, Vacation accrual, 401k, reserve rules.

Originally Posted by unit monster (Post 1525670)

I'm locked in my current rate until July 1, 2015.

Per Diem - yes up, but inflation, cost of living and food prices?

Sick accrual is much improved.

Vacation accrual is negated and actually a concession when new vacation low terms are applied.

401k is better.

Reserve rules? No calling for release and shorter/more pay for RR. Still moving days and apparently RAP times.

Lets call a spade a spade here. Self preservation propaganda tour starts...now.

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 1525656)

ASA folks, the LXJT folks don't like our "assignment of vacations". You see they don't believe in seniority like we do. Their system works like this:

Everyone bids for their first week in seniority order. Then everyone bids for their second week in seniority order...and so on.

Let's not forget that these are two very different pilot groups with very different thoughts on some issues. In fact, this contributed to the delay which resulted in negotiating in a more difficult environment.

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 1525644)

No, reality is that we are competing with many other regionals for a shrinking piece of the pie. These competitors recently inked deals that are far worse than our deal. Reality is that we still have to deal with things like competition, RLA, NMB, and pattern bargaining.

If you live in Never Never Land, you don't care about reality and you thump your chest and whine about "fairness" and "deserve"...and you think this deal sucks.

Originally Posted by PBSG (Post 1525682)

Come on guy. I am 20 percent on any combined list company wide and 8 percent in base, and this way of bidding for vacation is just nuts.

I think it's fair to have everyone get a shot at their first choice on their first bid for vacation. You think the pigs like yourself should continue to block the trough for everyone else.

No

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 1525689)

That's how seniority works....I know you guys don't really believe in it. Our open time is seniority based to. Our cultures are very different.

Originally Posted by PBSG (Post 1525684)

Compete? No other regional can find anyone to fill classes! I just spoke with a recruiter for one of our competitors who said they are empty. Even with Comair going tits up there is nobody going to fill classes.

We go under, our Major customers need to add flying and NOBODY can fill that void.

That's reality

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 1525680)

If we vote it down, your pay is frozen even longer, your Per Diem is less while inflation marches on, and you don't get any of the improvements in sick, reserve, and 401k. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face....

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 1525693)

The entire regional fleet is only going to be half of what it is now because the 50 seat replacement flying is 2 for 1. Combine that with the loss of secondary hubs, there is going to be a lot less flying at the regional level. That will make up for most of the "shortage".

However, let's just say you are right. IF you are right, then this problem will solve itself and the pay will go back up...Right? Supply and demand will do far more than ALPA can.

Originally Posted by N43898 (Post 1525700)

USPS is Hiring!
Today, there are 1,610 entry level jobs available at the US Postal Service, all across the country.*

Starting pay is $21 per hour, with benefits
No experience is necessary
High school diploma/GED is NOT required if you are 18 or older
Federal benefits for career employees
Average postal worker makes $72,000 a year
Paid “on the job” training, and paid vacation
Retirement plan

Originally Posted by PBSG (Post 1525702)

You are overestimating ALPAs 'Sun Tzu' like strategy :)

Or.......United purchases larger aircraft and gives them to SkyWest, who will fly them, not under a FFD agreement but a code share agreement with the Star Alliance. (United pilots have no protection over code share flight).

I believe before this vote comes to a close that UAL will announce larger aircraft. There is your whipsaw/scare tactic

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 1525712)

There are lots of potential opportunities out there. Could be United or Delta as "code share". Could be Alaska under the Alaska code...They don't have scope limits on size. Could be code share for Emirates, or Ethiad or other international carriers.

I suspect our MECs have been given a glimpse of "plan B" which may or may not include us. I also suspect that is why your MEC voted to pass this on.

Originally Posted by PBSG (Post 1525715)

The MEC has NOT seen a Plan B. Quit being a drama queen. You think SKW would really show their cards? Please.

Originally Posted by unit monster (Post 1525698)

I can see myself being down $400+ in soft time for any given month. So, until I can get out or we get a better offer..what I have right now is fine, thank you.

Originally Posted by PBSG (Post 1525715)

The MEC has NOT seen a Plan B. Quit being a drama queen. You think SKW would really show their cards? Please.

Originally Posted by Vertisch (Post 1525748)

I know this thing is nothing special, but I can not comprehend giving up the duty rig and it makes me question the viability of the whole thing. I 'wanted' to like it, but I can't get my mind around that.

Originally Posted by Boomer (Post 1525765)

Just a suggestion for you guys...

Watch out for those minimum day values and trip rigs.

Hourly rates won't mean squat if the new rest rules crush your productivity - like when your 4-day trips are only worth 12 hours and everyone's stuck with min days off to make monthly guarantee.

Originally Posted by atrdriver (Post 1525774)

Voting no and waiting a few more months to see how 117 shakes out won't hurt.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1525807)

That TA is better than our(9E) pre bankruptcy contract.