Why does it take a month to get this vote done? It only takes 4 days to bid.

As dumb as it sounds if your not in the "secret Facebook group for the TA" ask around for someone to invite you in...1040 strong already

Dumb as it sounds if *you're*? ;)

So much for the definition of "rest" and "free of company obligation"

Originally Posted by todd1200 View Post
c. A pilot on a layover who is away from his hotel for an extended
period of time will check for messages periodically or arrange
an alternate method of contact.


How DID that little gem get in there? That and having to call for release from duty at the end of every reserve trip is SkyWest management's wet dream.

We've always had to do that... however the contract stipulates that this phone call cannot result in a junior assignment or an extension.
Basically it's used as the last ditch effort to tag you with ready reserve early the next day!

Exactly what I was thinking. This keeps getting better but we have some that think given the state of this industry right now, this is the best that we can do. :rolleyes:

So I am a former Comair pilot and now I work here on the ASA side. I see a great group of pilots here on both sides and I am happy to be a part things. I read the TA and a few forums and I have heard enough. All of you have made some great points. This TA is a real letdown. ALPA has done it again and it will be amusing listening to the reps in the crew loung sell this POS. ALPA coined the term “regional reality” in an email recently. Love it! There is no fight in them what so ever.
At Comair we were threatened with this and that so we would vote YES. The TAs passed and the promises they made were broken. They didn’t shut us down because we were not cost competitive. That was all BS. There are lots and lots or reasons why they did. So I will not let management scare me on this TA. I am voting NO. We can do better.
I had a beer with a LXJT pilot a few days ago. He said they have very low turnout during votes in the past. That’s discouraging. Help these folks log in and vote. We need everyone to participate. I heard someone suggest that no one show up at the road shows. I love that idea. Let’s put pilots outside the door and discourage any one from going in. Let those idiots sit in silence and think about what they have done.
And one more thing. I would like nothing more than to see this pilot group (ASA and XJT) for the next 2 months operate our schedules with professionalism and no game playing to slow things down. Just do our jobs they way we are expected to and then vote this steaming pile of crap down with over whelming results. 100% turnout.

Excellent point. Maintain our professionalism, vote against the TA.

I have no (direct) dog in this fight, but this guy knows what's up.

It sounds like a "concessionary" contract.... But it still sounds like its light years ahead of what PSA did.
My nephew at Eagle says your concessionary contract is still better than his in many ways. TIFWIW.

So much for Endeavor PSA being the new standard. Sorry you guys took a hit, but good job making it as small as you did.

Personally, your companies are all making money. Why is anybody taking concessions in that environment.

You should all ditch ALPA and form your own.

If pay raises go up every 18 months will some of us go back to our previous hourly rate? In Jan. '14 I will have been here less than 18 months.

I like the idea of line pilots standing guard at the doors of every road show discouraging people from entering. As a bonus, maybe standing there and handing out a bullet-point summary of WHY this TA is an insult to every pilot here. That way, those who do choose to enter can know what questions to ask.

The senior guys will vote yes with unbelievable solidarity. The other 75% of this list needs to vote NO with the same solidarity.

With the exception of senior pilot pay rates, a lot of this contract is worse than what PNCL was handed by Delta. And Delta INTENDED to shut them down even WITH that contract.

Before consolidating the regionals (my guess is there ultimately will be only 2, Skywest and Republic), CEOs are smart (from a business perspective) to drive wages as low as possible. For at least another 5 years, there will remain enough captains who can't afford the first year pay cut at a major, and enough willing FOs needing to build competitive time to go to a major, to keep the regionals sufficiently staffed at just about any pay rate. Additionally, there is currently no shortage of furloughed Comair pilots and separating/retiring mil pilots willing to work at XJT for $23/hr, in hopes of eventually being called by a major...

My guess is that the regional CEOs know that their companies will eventually collapse. And with strict regard for use of resources/capital, they're squeezing every single drop of blood out of the turnip before they toss the remnants in the compost pile.

While I don't know any details of the contract and am not trying to evoke a response, it's important to consider the alternatives of not accepting the contract. Can Skywest recoup the L-ASA -700/900s, transfer their -200s to L-ASA, and shut down the L-ASA side if the contract isn't signed? How many DL Connection seats are flown by ASA every day, what impact will the 717s have to that number, and does sufficient lower-cost lift exist to supplant the absence of ASA? Same goes for L-XJT. I'd like to see the union research/reveal the alternatives Skywest, DL and UA have if the contract is voted down.

Alpa regional reality is a phrase which means alpa is doing nothing and get ready to bend over. Alpa will be coining a new phrase in a year or two for mainline, mainline reality affected by regional reality.

Management to alpa, you cost to much when I can run two crj900' s for the cost of one a320 at your rates, you are going to have to meet a zero cost with the regional rates. Can't wait, will be a good reality show to watch.

Friday the 13th in Atl sounds appropriate.

Why even waste the money for these stupid Road Shows?

Unfortunately, I think a lot of the YES votes will come in from the ATL and DFW base for the L-ASA side. Just pure speculation on my part and I am hoping that I would be proven wrong.

I've read the low points, and I can't really see anything that would prompt me to vote yes (if I could vote).

There will be veiled (and not so veiled) threats that we need to vote this in to save our jobs. Yeah, we tried that at Comair. It worked swell. /sarcasm off

Trust this. There will be a big No vote coming from Atlanta and There is no way any yes votes coming from DFW from ASA. I haven't talked to anyone yet voting YES. Be assured there will be a few senior guys voting yes.

Good to know. Hopefully we can vote this down with a resounding NO.

I've been having some long sits in dfw lately due to the wx and there has been plenty of discussion about the TA. I haven't seen many of the super senior ca's out here this week but all the mid to lower seniority ca's and fo's are NO votes.

Hopefully all the fear mongering and threats won't change any minds.

Don't know about the Atl dtw and iAd sides of the house.

I just figured we have more senior pilots in those two bases that would be inclined to vote yes.

MEC or all LEC reps?
 

Can someone clarify who exactly voted to send this to the two pilot groups. Everything I have seen points to an MEC vote, but this is only three guys on the ASA side. Was it their vote alone, or did elected reps get a say as well?

Time to fire ALPA and start a new inhouse SKYW/Expressjet/ASA union. I wish you guys nothing but unity and strength. Whatever you guys decide on, if you take concessions our company will use that in our negotiations and make us at least match yours.. so I hope you guys and girls stay strong.

Like someone else said on here, remember... No regional can replace 'our' (SkyWest Inc.) flying... United and Delta would go crazy in days if all 7200 of us decided enough is enough...

303

What does Alpa have to do with this? This atrocity is the result of poor negotiating and a wussy MEC that sent this out. They'd be theta same if it was in-house or Alpa....just so we are clear.

I also pray Xjters vote this piece of junk down. Stand strong!

I dont think people should be worried. This turd of a TA has been flushed so many times by people it doesn't stand a chance as a floater. 80% no ASA side. 90% No XJT side my prediction.

Remove the SkyWest pilots from your equation. That will never happen.

Everyone on here, and other boards, are the vocal minority that are always going to be ****ed off no matter what was in this TA. I predict it will pass with a slim margin. 50-60% both sides.

Under normal circumstances I would tend to agree with you. But having looked at this TA, why would I be in any hurry to vote for something that has an adverse affect on my quality of life? That just doesn't make sense.

Let me underscore that: There are virtually NO improvements in this contract.

It is absolutely amazing to me that so many people have no idea how ALPA is structured. The don't know how it works, who it is, how the RLA works, how the NMB works....but they've got negotiations all figured out.

It was an MEC vote....It's not just 3 on the ASA side.

Unit monster, do you know who your status reps. are? Have you talked to them?

There are many "super senior" ATL CAs on the facebook page saying hell no. I really didn't expect to see that. I've got a feeling this thing is going down in flames, JB nothwithstanding.

I would have been a happy yes with slight improvements over what we currently have in a few specific areas.

I know my rep, asked him a few questions. He averted my question about the vote, intentional or not.

How can one find this FB group? I haven't been to work since before the TA came out.

Check your Pm's.

Send me one too for the FB page

The fb page is private. You have to have a fb friend add you. Please do not add people unless they are currently a pilot for ASA or XJT.

Disclaimer: I know you don't work at ASA.

Did ALPA national vote in the XJT & ASA MEC/reps? Did ALPA national appoint the ASA and XJT Negotiating Committee? Did ALPA national vote to pass this to the XJT and ASA membership?

If voted down, how confident are the ASA/XJT guys that these same elected and appointed people will come back with something better?

ALPA has considerable problems (without a doubt), but sounds like the devil lies within these airlines, not at national. Just an outsiders perspective.

What's entertaining to me is watching Joe Merchant/John Breiling posting like a maniacal chicken little on here and on the facebook page. Today, John's pal, LJ, posted her testimonial on why she's a yes voter. Here's what I remember about John and LJ from Contract 2007... THEIR TUNES HAVEN'T CHANGED A BIT!

Both of them were running around stating how we needed to take concessions to remain viable in the current (2007) market. Heck, LJ even tried to assemble a group of her peeps, known back then as the FAB 4, to take over the MEC in a coup of sorts and accept a concessionary contract from the company. Luckily for us, she failed and while the ensuing contract wasn't great, it was a heck of a lot better than it would have been if she had succeeded.

So here we are, still plugging along almost 7 years after JB and LJ swore that we were asking for too much in our last contract and that the company wouldn't survive. I've heard this all before, didn't buy it then and not buying it this time, either.

...and before JB even has a chance to post about how the environment is different now, I would argue that it's actually better this time around. As has been posted ad naseum here and elsewhere, this airline is going to shrink no matter how we vote with the draw down of the 50 seaters. The difference is that all regional airlines are having trouble staffing the planes they already have, let alone those shifted from another carrier. Who is going to be able to accept any new flying if they can barely fill their cockpits right now?

I understand we aren't going to raise the bar after Pinnacle/Endeavor and PSA caved, but this contract gives away too many things that don't cost the company ANYTHING. Fix the work rules and QOL issues and I'll vote yes, until then, I'm a solid NO!

I'm glad you brought this up MaxPower...Do you remember who the other group of 4 was that was running against them? They named their group "No pilot left behind". I'm suspecting you supported them in that election...correct?

Two of them, DU and SP were on this negotiating committee and this MEC that are presenting this TA. They both think it should pass. Why do you they think they negotiated it and support it? They were on your team against the "fav 4"...What happened?

Agree on the first part.

But get your hands on a copy of Moak's (ALPA natl) email response to the AE MEC voicing their concern over how they feel about the regional spectrum fighting for better compensation and work rules.

Ehhhhhh, you might have a new perspective on exactly how national sees it.

"ALPA is ONLY as good as your MEC".