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Originally Posted by NoHandHold
(Post 1525836)
So we keep min day but lose duty rig on regular trips.
Can someone describe a scenario of the negative affects of this? So we keep min day but lose duty rig on regular trips...and we lose trip rigs correct? Can someone describe a scenario of the negative affects of this? |
And folks...I keep asking these questions so I can edit the first post, consolidate the changes, pros & cons, and place it all organized on the front page of this thread....if a mod will allow.
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Originally Posted by XJT Pilot
(Post 1525852)
Just vindicating why I DO NOT EXCEPT PSA or Endevor on my JS and never will. My family thanks you guys!
Merry Christmas |
Originally Posted by NoHandHold
(Post 1525865)
Edit:
So we keep min day but lose duty rig on regular trips...and we lose trip rigs correct? Can someone describe a scenario of the negative affects of this? Day 1 - 13 hrs duty (7 pay hours) Day 2 - 10 hrs duty (5 pay hours) Day 3 - 12 hrs duty (6 pay hours) Same three day with just min day: 11.58 hours These are minimums irregardless of block. The company also always builds block up to the soft value of the trip, don't expect this productivity if this TA passes. My biggest expectation with this contract was strengthening of duty rigs. Glad my union heard me clearly. |
Originally Posted by NoHandHold
(Post 1525865)
Edit:
So we keep min day but lose duty rig on regular trips...and we lose trip rigs correct? Can someone describe a scenario of the negative affects of this? |
Originally Posted by XJT Pilot
(Post 1525852)
Just vindicating why I DO NOT EXCEPT PSA or Endevor on my JS and never will. My family thanks you guys!
Merry Christmas |
Originally Posted by NoHandHold
(Post 1525486)
Yea I read that.
So I'm right in thinking this is a change from what we have? I'm triple checking everything and verifying. |
Originally Posted by SilkySmooth
(Post 1525899)
There are few times in my life where I have felt genuinely disrespected, even fewer while at work, and never from my own company. Gentlemen and ladies, this is a first. People don't always choose to commute, but when they have to, alternate deadhead makes commuting somewhat more bearable. Choosing between getting home at a decent time or getting paid what's due is just plain asinine. It is quite evident that none of our reps have ever commuted. Shame on them and shame on the company. For this reason alone my vote is NO!
That, along with many other reasons, will be an no vote for me. |
Originally Posted by unit monster
(Post 1525875)
Current system three day: 18 hours soft pay
Day 1 - 13 hrs duty (7 pay hours) Day 2 - 10 hrs duty (5 pay hours) Day 3 - 12 hrs duty (6 pay hours) Same three day with just min day: 11.58 hours These are minimums irregardless of block. The company also always builds block up to the soft value of the trip, don't expect this productivity if this TA passes. My biggest expectation with this contract was strengthening of duty rigs. Glad my union heard me clearly. |
Originally Posted by atlmsl
(Post 1525874)
Except what?
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25-P.2. Captains flying as FOs. So that is how they are going to address the problem of losing FOs. Can they do this on the ERJ side right now?
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Originally Posted by XJT Pilot
(Post 1525852)
Just vindicating why I DO NOT EXCEPT PSA or Endevor on my JS and never will. My family thanks you guys!
Merry Christmas Except = with the exclusion of; excluding; save; Accept = to take or receive (something offered); receive with approval or favor |
Originally Posted by somertime32
(Post 1525943)
25-P.2. Captains flying as FOs. So that is how they are going to address the problem of losing FOs. Can they do this on the ERJ side right now?
And, unless I missed it, it appears that scheduling can still move a reserves off-days willy-nilly without any penalty to the company--no add pay, nada. That was something I was explicitly told by 2 MEC members that was going to be something they were "fighting" for. |
Double post
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Originally Posted by skigambia
(Post 1525927)
You're forgetting that with the new rest rules we will never see that hypothetical 3 day. The max duty day is 13 hours, and that will only happen if all the stars are aligned (start time, number of legs, etc). Since there is no extending beyond that and in order to maintain some sort of operational reliability, I would imagine that the company will schedule us to a max of 11 hours. I don't ever remember a time where I worked an 11 hour day and didn't break 5 hrs credit. The loss of the rig combined with the new rest rules might not be as bad as we think.
That's a legal trip under 117 as far as I can tell, so the stars could align. "I imagine the company..." C'MON! You can reduce the duty lengths, and it's still a win. Three ten hour days...15 hours. You hardly ever didn't meet block time to satisfy the rig...because THE RIG WAS THERE! It took about two months after C2007 to figure out how to schedule just (barely) as productive as our rigs. You're right, it could be not as bad as we think, but I sure don't want to find out. I guess I just don't see how we can have apologists for this thing. The concessions FAR out weigh any gains (ASA), IMO. /autocorrect |
Everything is terrible on this contract. The only positive I see is sick pay. But it doesnt matter, especially if the company has those stupid occurances. They treat us like we are still in school, not profesionals flying people for hire. Plus if you are looking to move on, you dont want to max out your sick time anyway.. Another BIG NO vote from ASA side.
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBound
(Post 1525945)
You're ignorance and unedumacated grammar skills forces me to post this. Make a choice between the following two word examples and consider grammar-checking your posts before submitting them. You'll sound much more smarter when threatening someone.
Except = with the exclusion of; excluding; save; Accept = to take or receive (something offered); receive with approval or favor |
I sat st the airport for 11 hours trying to get out of DCA. LGA was shut down and I was pay protected for my 4 legs that day. Under the new rules, I would have gotten 3.82 (which really should have gone up to 4 or 4.5, but that's a different argument). I also recently got to RDU early enough to make it back to ATL on an earlier flight that was open when my deadhead was oversold. I was approved for the alternate deadhead, which was better for me, the company and Delta, but under the new rules I would have lost the pay for the last leg. That, among other things, is unacceptable.
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Originally Posted by XJT Pilot
(Post 1525852)
Just vindicating why I DO NOT EXCEPT PSA or Endevor on my JS and never will. My family thanks you guys!
Merry Christmas I'm sure the family of the guy you deny for no reason that is trying to get home for Thanksgiving dinner will thank you for not "excepting" him/her. |
Originally Posted by AtlCSIP
(Post 1525976)
I sat st the airport for 11 hours trying to get out of DCA. LGA was shut down and I was pay protected for my 4 legs that day. Under the new rules, I would have gotten 3.82 (which really should have gone up to 4 or 4.5, but that's a different argument). I also recently got to RDU early enough to make it back to ATL on an earlier flight that was open when my deadhead was oversold. I was approved for the alternate deadhead, which was better for me, the company and Delta, but under the new rules I would have lost the pay for the last leg. That, among other things, is unacceptable.
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Originally Posted by XJT Pilot
(Post 1525852)
Just vindicating why I DO NOT EXCEPT PSA or Endevor on my JS and never will. My family thanks you guys!
Merry Christmas |
Originally Posted by JoeMerchant
(Post 1525693)
The entire regional fleet is only going to be half of what it is now because the 50 seat replacement flying is 2 for 1. Combine that with the loss of secondary hubs, there is going to be a lot less flying at the regional level. That will make up for most of the "shortage".
I wanted to make my decision only after seeing it and I haven't seen anything in this contract that prompts me to say that I will vote "yes" to this. So, add another "NO" vote from the ASA side. |
Originally Posted by AtlCSIP
(Post 1525976)
I sat st the airport for 11 hours trying to get out of DCA. LGA was shut down and I was pay protected for my 4 legs that day. Under the new rules, I would have gotten 3.82 (which really should have gone up to 4 or 4.5, but that's a different argument). I also recently got to RDU early enough to make it back to ATL on an earlier flight that was open when my deadhead was oversold. I was approved for the alternate deadhead, which was better for me, the company and Delta, but under the new rules I would have lost the pay for the last leg. That, among other things, is unacceptable.
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Originally Posted by Saabs
(Post 1525991)
Do u EXCEPT expressjet pilots on ur jumpseat after they voted in concessions a few years ago?:rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by ross9238
(Post 1525999)
I don't agree with XJT Pilot but I have to say that their concessions still exceeded whatever you guys had or still have in the regional contract that you worked for.
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Originally Posted by ross9238
(Post 1525995)
Since we know that our fleet will be reduced in the long run, why should we take concessions now for the inevitable?
I wanted to make my decision only after seeing it and I haven't seen anything in this contract that prompts me to say that I will vote "yes" to this. So, add another "NO" vote from the ASA side. |
Originally Posted by atrdriver
(Post 1525974)
Um. Well this is awkward.
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LASA 2010 hire date. I'm a No vote to anything that doesn't pay me for my time. I deserve to be paid from the time I clock in to the time I clock out. I'll vote no to anything for the rest of my life that doesn't do this.
I'm excited that I finally get to voice my concerns with a No vote. |
Originally Posted by NoHandHold
(Post 1525486)
Yea I read that.
So I'm right in thinking this is a change from what we have? I'm triple checking everything and verifying.
Originally Posted by skigambia
(Post 1525987)
How would you only get 3.82?
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You guys know that FAR 117 pretty much takes care of these things already.
Originally Posted by NoHandHold
(Post 1525404)
So far...
-Ready reserve goes to 6.5 hours instead of 8...credit pay remains 4. -No more call for release for reserves....checking skedplus suffices. -No more standby for an hour for reserves...or any period of time. *Mind you this was a quick skim, please correct anything you see wrong |
I could deal with a lot of shortcomings, but I can't vote in favor of the perpetuation of such low junior FO pay rates. I know there's only so much money to go around, and I'm fine with taking that money from somewhere else, but until junior FOs make a livable wage (when considering the costs required to qualify for the job) it'll be a "No" vote for me.
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does any other regional airline already have this BS proposed deadhead policy?
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Originally Posted by RamenNoodles
(Post 1526131)
ALSO:
Duty rig is still intact. 2:1 up to 12 hours and 1:1 thereafter. |
Originally Posted by berge7f9
(Post 1526125)
does any other regional airline already have this BS proposed deadhead policy?
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Read it more closely ... Duty rig applies to CDOs only.
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Originally Posted by RamenNoodles
(Post 1526142)
Obviously I'm missing something. Show me something I'm missing. This is what I see:
a. A pilot will be paid and credited, at the applicable rate of pay set forth in paragraph [A.], above, on a daily basis, the greater of: (1) Paragraphs [1.b.] or [1.c.], below, for Continuous Duty Overnights (CDOs). (2) Paragraphs [1.b.] or [1.d.], below for other than CDOs. b. Block Hour Credit The greater of actual or scheduled block time calculated on a leg-by-leg basis, including deadhead credit and any additional pay credits set forth in this Section. c. Duty Hour Credit 1 minute of credit for each 2 minutes of originally scheduled duty time calculated for each duty period up to 12 hours of duty, and then 1 minute of credit for each 1 minute of originally scheduled duty time after 12 hours of duty. Read a. (1) (2) Notice how (2) does not include C? |
Originally Posted by somertime32
(Post 1526146)
Read a. (1) (2)
Notice how (2) does not include C? |
Originally Posted by XJT Pilot
(Post 1525852)
Just vindicating why I DO NOT EXCEPT PSA or Endevor on my JS and never will. My family thanks you guys!
Merry Christmas I wouldn't EXPECT them if you don't ACCEPT them! |
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