Based on your comment under Position - I don't believe you

 

Foiled again! I'll never get a Check Airman letter

 

IMO, APC is not an appropriate venue to discuss this. The OP notified the crew of the perceived problem at the time of occurrence and it was corrected to everyone's satisfaction. Done deal. Take up any future discussion through closed channels such as pro standards.

 

Doesn't matter how thick it is. Regs are very clear and very black and white concerning contaminated control surfaces.

 

exactly..

what if the FAA was onboard in the back and they took off? do they think they'll agree it looks pretty?

 

That's what i would have. I'd rather get off than go fly with contaminated wings anyway.

Might do the CA some good to explain to the CP exactly WHY he kicked me off

 

We don't ever allow the identification of crew members by name to the public, for obvious security reasons.

But we don't have a policy such that you can't reference specific flight numbers...we do it all the time (see the SWA wrong-airport thread in the Majors section).

It's up to the OP to decide whether this is the best way to deal with this sort of thing.

If he had asked me in advance I would have advised him not to post in this manner because it's going to get back to management...unless that's what he wanted. But it's way too late to shut the barn door now.

But I'll admit it's a bit disturbing that US 121 pilots are still flying with ice...intentionally or accidentally. I consider it non-trivial and is certainly a legit point of discussion on APC (maybe without the flight number next time).

 

And you know emphatically that the plan was to take off without getting deiced how?

I've never deiced at ewr before, but I know many places spray down at the end of the runway to minimize taxi time to departure. Perhaps the pilots didn't feel getting deiced merited a pa, completely the captain's call.

Why do you want to know the pilots' names anyway?
Planning to give them a talking to?
Are you an express jet pilot?
Do you know what parameters require deicing per their ops specs?
Was the frost in question thicker than 1/4 inch?

 

Absolutely.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yQd3mOQUVtU

For all the "professionals" saying just a little frost is no big deal, a quick review of 121.629 (b) might be in order.

Also, as demonstrated by the Russian airbus clip, don't forget that everyone is a photojournalist these days and the recordings they make are pretty solid evidence which would be of considerable interest to your company, the FAA and maybe even the NTSB.

 

Are we talking about frost like what you get after fueling? Or is this "frost" small amounts of ice and snow?
Frost from recent fueling wont be an issue, but if they were sitting there with snow/ice actually on the top of the wings my comment below may be appropriate. However, if its really, really cold most fresh snow will blow off at just a few knots. But if its wet(er) snow, then it may stick.

As a pilot, or flight attendant or knowledgeable passenger, someone should have said something. USair 405 and Air Ontario 1363 crashed for the same reasons. Snow and ice accumulation after incorrect or lack of deicing procedures. A few of the passengers noticed the wing contamination but failed to say anything. One was a captain from another airline but he didnt want to upset the flying crew. Could have saved alot of lives if he nutted up and said something... At least make sure the FA tells the captain there is a safety issue brought up by a passenger.