Expressjet 3808
01-13-2014 | 10:46 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,485
Likes: 0
From: Taco Rocket Operator
Anybody know these guys? We were headed right for takeoff at EWR this morning with frost all over the wings. Other jets getting deiced at the gate. We just pushback and go!
Full of pax with a FA jumpseating in the back.
Can't believe it as we approach the runway she and I are freaking out. I am in the last row seat 24A so I grab the intercom and ask if they planned on deicing.
We then slow down and sit for awhile. Another 360 and we taxi around awhile then find a place for a deice truck to come spray the wings.
No PA ever made.
Comments?
Full of pax with a FA jumpseating in the back.
Can't believe it as we approach the runway she and I are freaking out. I am in the last row seat 24A so I grab the intercom and ask if they planned on deicing.
We then slow down and sit for awhile. Another 360 and we taxi around awhile then find a place for a deice truck to come spray the wings.
No PA ever made.
Comments?
Last edited by FlyingKat; 01-13-2014 at 11:09 AM.
01-13-2014 | 10:54 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,485
Likes: 0
From: Taco Rocket Operator
Are we talking about frost like what you get after fueling? Or is this "frost" small amounts of ice and snow?
Frost from recent fueling wont be an issue, but if they were sitting there with snow/ice actually on the top of the wings my comment below may be appropriate. However, if its really, really cold most fresh snow will blow off at just a few knots. But if its wet(er) snow, then it may stick.
As a pilot, or flight attendant or knowledgeable passenger, someone should have said something. USair 405 and Air Ontario 1363 crashed for the same reasons. Snow and ice accumulation after incorrect or lack of deicing procedures. A few of the passengers noticed the wing contamination but failed to say anything. One was a captain from another airline but he didnt want to upset the flying crew. Could have saved alot of lives if he nutted up and said something... At least make sure the FA tells the captain there is a safety issue brought up by a passenger.
Frost from recent fueling wont be an issue, but if they were sitting there with snow/ice actually on the top of the wings my comment below may be appropriate. However, if its really, really cold most fresh snow will blow off at just a few knots. But if its wet(er) snow, then it may stick.
As a pilot, or flight attendant or knowledgeable passenger, someone should have said something. USair 405 and Air Ontario 1363 crashed for the same reasons. Snow and ice accumulation after incorrect or lack of deicing procedures. A few of the passengers noticed the wing contamination but failed to say anything. One was a captain from another airline but he didnt want to upset the flying crew. Could have saved alot of lives if he nutted up and said something... At least make sure the FA tells the captain there is a safety issue brought up by a passenger.
Kudos to the crew for turning around and deicing once the frost was brought to their attention. That seems to be the only professional thing I read in the OP post.
Last edited by FlyingKat; 01-13-2014 at 11:13 AM.
01-13-2014 | 10:55 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 1
From: Downwind, headed straight for the rocks, shanghaied aboard the ship of fools.
I think it would be a good idea if APC actually required our real names to be used and to verify who we all are. It would greatly improve civility and manners here.
01-13-2014 | 11:03 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,490
Likes: 502
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airway
Remember this? deicing the russian way.flv - YouTube
Gotta love the russians. If you've ever had a "what if I did this" question chances are the russians have attempted it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airway
Remember this? deicing the russian way.flv - YouTube
Gotta love the russians. If you've ever had a "what if I did this" question chances are the russians have attempted it.
01-13-2014 | 11:10 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 1
From: FO
Exactly. Hit the call button, and ask the working FA to call the flight deck and tell them you noticed some ice on the wing. That will get their attention everytime and unless they are stupid, they will get a deice. I've seen it plenty of times where you preflight and no frost. Then as the sun comes up the temperature dips and frost everywhere. You don't know the condition of the airplane when it was preflighted. Kudos to the crew for turning around and deicing once the frost was brought to their attention.
Had this scenario happen, but it was dusk. Walk around was done as the sun was going down, 20-30 minutes later we push, Ramp guy asks if we need deice due to frost (CRJ so wing top is visible to wing walkers). The CA and I looked at each other and we hadn't notice frost anywhere on the plane. I walk to the back and look at the wings and sure enough frost had started forming on the outer 3-4 feet of the wing. We deiced.
It happens. Good thing the ramper didn't get on the ramper web board and start blasting us, and demanding to know who we were, or may he did and I just don't know about it!
01-13-2014 | 11:18 AM
#46
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,127
Likes: 796
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
It would stiffle honesty as FO's would be afraid of offending CAs, Regional pilots would be afraid they'd get blacklisted, and every airline would have a manager pulling "APC Monitoring Duty" 24/7. Any airline, including unionized ones, can instantly fire anyone for a perceived public slight of the company (unless it's specifically protected labor organizing speech).
01-13-2014 | 11:21 AM
#47
Scary...Scary...
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 11
From: Rollin' Down tha 405
01-13-2014 | 11:23 AM
#48
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,127
Likes: 796
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I remember reading a thread months ago...I think by a FedEx pilot who observed a foreign (Asian if I recall) airline taking off without deicing while on a deadhead. Every reply was vilifying the flight crew and demanding they never fly on them again.
EWR doesn't deice anywhere near the runways, they do it near the terminals. You'd think someone riding in the back (a crewmember no less) would be a little bit aware of what was going on.
Just think how the replies would be in this thread if this wasn't a US crew represented by the almighty ALPA.
EWR doesn't deice anywhere near the runways, they do it near the terminals. You'd think someone riding in the back (a crewmember no less) would be a little bit aware of what was going on.
Just think how the replies would be in this thread if this wasn't a US crew represented by the almighty ALPA.
But if I was in doubt, I would speak up early too...wouldn't want to be trying to get the FA's attention when they take the runway.
01-13-2014 | 12:06 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
From: FO
Could be that the OP is a CFI new-hire who is still on IOE and had a knee-jerk over-reaction. Could also be he was an old-hand who was familiar with procedures at the airport in question and made a good call. Sounds like the later.
But if I was in doubt, I would speak up early too...wouldn't want to be trying to get the FA's attention when they take the runway.
But if I was in doubt, I would speak up early too...wouldn't want to be trying to get the FA's attention when they take the runway.
01-13-2014 | 12:22 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 771
Likes: 0
From: Qualified to carry liquids through security.
24 rows in a 145? Damn.
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