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Thanks so much for the information, I know it's about impossible to predict what direction any company is heading in.
well it looks like I'll have to get used to commuting. |
Originally Posted by EEECBUC
(Post 2238804)
Not sure about who owns L-ASA/XJT jets, that might be part of the equation as well. Perhaps someone with that knowledge can chime in here. But as you can see, SKYW can slowly wind down L-ASA/XJT as they continue to ramp up manning and airframes until they reach a favorable cross over point. It is at that cross over that I believe SKYW will begin to aggressively shutter L-ASA/XJT. This is just my opinion.
FlightDirector, From the L-XJT side and partly applies to the L-ASA side. There is not a company anywhere in the world that can train 1000 pilots overnight. That is the amount for just 100 airplanes. Our planes are being moved to a company that is 40% owned by United. They are still ramping up the hiring at C5 (commutair) and they are running classes of ~25 a month. (2-3 planes). If the XJT management came out and stated they were closing down the airline, they would have no one left to fly the remaing planes they are stuck with. If management did not say anything at all, then pilots would know that they are closing down the place. The XJT management is very cautious in what they tell the pilots and they give the little carrot every once in a while, making it look good. (CPA extensions that don't happen) An example of that is we were told UA extended the CPA at the first part of 2016 and we would not park any planes. There is a list on the L-xjt forum that will show you how many have been parked this year Parked Aircraft - Page 77 XJT is a good company with a good contract. It used to be a great company with a great contract, but we are still operating under a contract that has concessionary rates (even with the 1.50 raise) that was put in place in 2004. One last point about the recruiters. They have been saying for years that the upgrade time will drop to a couple of years in a very short amount of time. Go to the facebook page and go back a couple of years if you don't believe me. The dates they use do not even add up. Shorter upgrade times will never happen. They are at 10 years now. The best they could do is upgrade 80 people and get it down to 7.5 years. I think we upgraded 15 this year. Also, if XJT was serious about hiring pilots, there would be a bonus like the other carriers. $60,000 is more than I make at XJT and I was hired in 2007. |
Originally Posted by N1234
(Post 2237104)
This is really simple…
INC is just optimizing their profitability. XJT hasn’t been profitable for a long time and still isn’t based on the last INC earnings call. So They try to discontinue unprofitable flying. This is no different from the SkyWest side where all the UA 700 go away mostly because they are just not very profitable. Once those aircraft EMB145 or CRJ 700 come of contract it is really about managing the tail risk of the lease financing - a place where many of the CRJ 200 already are. Ideally, they match any contract extension against the residual lease timeline which tends to be 2-3 years. And that is exactly what you see. After that it is all gravy if they get extended – or INC returns the plane, adjusts the work force via attrition and goes home happy. So they are going for shorter term opportunities that also happen to be priced at a premium. Again, no difference between XJT and SKYW. A lot of the 50 seater flying at SKYW is short-term as well. I don't think UA is thrilled about this approach but that’s why they are propping up C5. Presumably they are willing and able to operate at lower price than INC wants to do either under XJT or SKYW. Note that a lot of the "new" SKYW flying is not with UA but AA.... Personally, I believe the 50 seaters will be here for a lot longer than everyone wants to make us believe. So these 2-3 deals will continue to roll barring any major economic downturn. As for new dual class cabin flying, it simply comes down to unit cost. Pilot productivity is higher at SKYW than XJT and as a result unit cost are a lower (PBS vs. hard line with vacation touching and I am sure a host of other things). So the 175 stuff goes there – very basic economics really. |
I definitely see your point.
I was pretty set on XJT when I first started looking at the regionals, I toured their offices in Atlanta and they really put on a good show. I don't have anything concrete tying me to Atlanta, I'm mainly just hoping to stay here because I have a really good network. I'm the backup pilot for a couple of small part 91 flight departments in the area that I could continue to fly for to supplement my income. I'm also an IA with a great reputation in the area allowing me to cherry pick annuals and other profitable maintenance work which really helps. I might be trying to hard to juggle everything right off. The other option is to cut bait and go with the regional that will have me off reserve as quickly as possible and offers the best upgrade times regardless of having to move or commute. I'm not looking to retire at XJT by any means, like most everyone else I'm looking for a stepping stone to the majors. With what I've seen in regards to mandatory retirements and (as of right now) a growing demand for pilots I think hiring at the majors is really going to ramp up starting mid 2017. I figure with my current times and experience I'll be a strong contender for the majors with about 2 years at a regional. Any thoughts on weather I could ride out XJT and start applying at everything with a wide body after 12 to 14 months on the line? With how volatile the industry is I find it's really hard to formulate a good plan. |
Originally Posted by FlightDirector
(Post 2238884)
I definitely see your point.
I was pretty set on XJT when I first started looking at the regionals, I toured their offices in Atlanta and they really put on a good show. I don't have anything concrete tying me to Atlanta, I'm mainly just hoping to stay here because I have a really good network. I'm the backup pilot for a couple of small part 91 flight departments in the area that I could continue to fly for to supplement my income. I'm also an IA with a great reputation in the area allowing me to cherry pick annuals and other profitable maintenance work which really helps. I might be trying to hard to juggle everything right off. The other option is to cut bait and go with the regional that will have me off reserve as quickly as possible and offers the best upgrade times regardless of having to move or commute. I'm not looking to retire at XJT by any means, like most everyone else I'm looking for a stepping stone to the majors. With what I've seen in regards to mandatory retirements and (as of right now) a growing demand for pilots I think hiring at the majors is really going to ramp up starting mid 2017. I figure with my current times and experience I'll be a strong contender for the majors with about 2 years at a regional. Any thoughts on weather I could ride out XJT and start applying at everything with a wide body after 12 to 14 months on the line? With how volatile the industry is I find it's really hard to formulate a good plan. There are several questions that you need to ask yourself before moving forward. 1. Do I want to get to a major, and if so, which one. 2. Is it better to commute than to go to an airline near my home. 3. Is it better to be on reserve at home or off reserve somewhere else. 4. If I commute, where do I want to be based and how fast to be based there. things to think about from above questions. 1. if you want a major, look for a flow or CPP type program for the airline that you want or for your second and third choices. 2. if the regional is not that good, going out of business, continuous reserve time, no flow or cpp, then you will be better off commuting. 3. On rsv, you will only get min guarantee at most places. Can you live on 75 hours at $37 an hour for years? getting a line will increase your pay and QOL. 4. look for the number of flights that will get you from your home airport (atl) to the companies bases. also look to see which base is jr and how long you will be there before getting a base that you can fly to easily. Last item will be the bonus money if it applies. get the details behind the money (ie. mesa requires you to sign away your life) or how much of it you will get with the stipulations. If you have any questions about XJT or C5 (commutair), feel free to ask me. I was at L-XJT for 9 years before giving up as an FO and unable to upgrade making less money for the last couple of years. I am at C5 now and I am getting ready to upgrade. |
Originally Posted by gojo
(Post 2238849)
Express Jet could be profitable again if Skywest wanted them to be. You make it sound like It's the fault of Express Jet for not being profitable.
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Originally Posted by No Lies
(Post 2238924)
It's all SkyWest, just with an ExpressJet name on some of the planes. None of it is controlled by ExpressJet.
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If this 2018 extension update is true then why did they just file a 10Q with the SEC a few days ago stating 2017 is the expiration date for 145's. That's the big question. They can't get in trouble for lying to us. There aren't any federal fines with that.
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Originally Posted by gojo
(Post 2238849)
Express Jet could be profitable again if Skywest wanted them to be. You make it sound like It's the fault of Express Jet for not being profitable.
The end result is still revenue < cost and I don't think it is for lack of trying. You can argue who's fault it is but I don't think anyone would want to shut it down if they had a choice. As for giving XJET more profitable 2 cabin class flying .... What do you'd I with your money? Take it to a bank that delivers 5% interest or one that gives you 1% interest? |
Originally Posted by FlightDirector
(Post 2238795)
I'm now at the point of deciding which regional to go with. I'm a short drive from Atlanta so ExpressJet is very attractive from a commuting standpoint. Talking to the recruiter it sounds like getting an Atlanta domicile within 6 months is reasonably probability. This makes XJT very attractive from a standpoint of QOL but everything I read on this and some other forums is predicting doom and gloom for XJT.
Granted I'll admit I've really only been closely looking at the airlines for the last 6 months so I'm still trying to get a feel for this segment of aviation. What I see in most predictions is SkyWest slowly shutting XJT down by the end of 2017. I realize this is all speculation and a guessing game but XJT seems to be putting a lot of effort into recruiting, surely they have a more optimistic outlook on the future of the company. From what I see I think the majors are going to be really ramping up their hiring starting in 2017. Anychance some of the senior guys at XJT will be moving on and decreasing the upgrade times? If Skywest really does close down XJT surely they'll put a domicile in ATL. Is there anychance XJT pilots will have any sort of priority hiring for SkyWest? Surely they won't just cut that many trained pilots when they also seem to be looking for staff as well. I've been flying corporate for a number of years and the airlines are looking pretty attractive from the standpoint of benefits and salary. I'm taking a financial hit going to the regionals now but even a second year first officer at most of the major airlines is making as much as the director / chief pilot of most small flight departments. It's a damn tough decision that I'm hoping will pay off in the end. Any thoughts and input is appreciated. Stay away from xjt. Don't listen to the recruiters lies either. I recently left and it was the smartest move I did. There is no future at xjt. I was on reserve the entire time I was there. Each month the reserve got longer and longer. The possibilities of holding a line became slimmer and slimmer. Scheduling manipulates the trips. They hide the ones in open time so reserve guys won't be able to pick them up. I've tracked trips and seen them do it. There were multiple trips I was wanting to pick up and when I called to pick them up, scheduling told me they were already picked up by someone else. Not true. I later saw a reserve guy schedule and it had been awarded to him. XJT is the defnintion of stagnant. Don't waste years of your life at a place like this. Even though you have the chance of driving, commuting to a different domicile will be worth it in the long run. OO is taking everything and will continue to take everything. The matter of staffing is always the excuse at xjt. Every email you receive from company is the same story about how they working hard to recruiter pilots. I feel bad for them. They DO work hard but it's nearly impossible to convince someone to come here and spend 2 plus years on reserve. That is not even mentioning the upgrade time of 10 years. Once you upgrade, if you ever do, you'll end up back on reserve for an additional 6 plus years. It's happening right now! Look at another place that's relatively stable and can provide career progression. You don't want to be at the bottom of the seniority list till you retire. That's what is happening at XJT. |
Originally Posted by N1234
(Post 2238937)
Do you think INC enjoys losing money? They have been negotiating the contracts to improve the revenue side and they have been working hard to improve cost incl. what many at XJET considered a concessionary contract.
The end result is still revenue < cost and I don't think it is for lack of trying. You can argue who's fault it is but I don't think anyone would want to shut it down if they had a choice. As for giving XJET more profitable 2 cabin class flying .... What do you'd I with your money? Take it to a bank that delivers 5% interest or one that gives you 1% interest? You will not find an xjt ticker symbol, only skywest. |
Originally Posted by No Lies
(Post 2238979)
Inc is not losing money. XJT's IT dept, benefit dept, and others are all under the skywest part of the operation. Guess who is paying out of their pockets to pay those people.
You will not find an xjt ticker symbol, only skywest. You can certainly manipulate the books to your liking but why would INC want to hurt a fundamentally healthy business - if it was fundamentally healthy? It is all left pocket - right pocket for them. It rolls up to one P&L eventually. What would be the endgame? Shut down XJET an rehire an retrain people on the SKYW side - and spend Even more money? Put the conspiracy theory aside. XJET is in a tough spot and I don't think INC would be out to kill them if it was salvageable. The real tragedy here is that people are still mislead thinking it is a viable option. |
Look. If something positive was going to happen at XJT it would have by now. Managements silence (except for lame platitudes and excuses) says it all. SKW is growing and XJT/ASA is not. There are many valid reasons for this, but in case you haven't noticed, the ship has sailed for the traditional regional jet model. Both DAL and UAL are looking to massively replace RJs with mainline equipment. It's already happening. Go read the majors forums on this site. The only regionals that have a future beyond a couple of years are the ones that either have guaranteed flying or are so cheap (mostly due to short longevity of pilots) that it's a deal too good for the majors to turn down. XJT/ASA has neither. It's very expensive and has no guarantees. Management touts quality over cost but mainline has repeatedly demonstrated that doesn't matter to them. Attempts to extend flying have all been short term. ExpressJet is just a place holder until SkyWest, Commutair, and the AAG WOs can hire enough pilots to take over the flying. A couple of years from now, there will only be a handful of regional airlines. ExpressJet won't be one of them. If you live in a domicile and think you can get out before (maybe to an LCC) the doors close, then roll the dice. Maybe use them for an RJ type then take that somewhere else for a hiring bonus and easy training (XJT/ASA has one of the best training departments in the industry). If your plan is to upgrade or even get enough experience to be competitive for a Legacy, you're probably looking in the wrong place. And I know several of the recruiters. Most of them are good people but they are pounding the kool aid and making promises that just aren't true in order to meet goals. Don't expect ATL as a new hire. Expect at least 2 years on reserve with virtually no work rules protecting you. Don't expect to upgrade. 16 year Captains are on reserve. I say all this not to bash the company, but because I think it's only fair for people to have all the information before making a decision. There are many voices here of pilots who went to XJT and quickly realized it wasn't what they were told. And senior pilots who used to be proud lifers are now bailing out to LCCs because they are reading the writing on the wall. Buyer beware.
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Originally Posted by No Lies
(Post 2238924)
It's all SkyWest, just with an ExpressJet name on some of the planes. None of it is controlled by ExpressJet.
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Originally Posted by gojo
(Post 2239017)
That's my point. If Express Jet is unprofitable it's by design. Skywest controls both the union lift and the non union lift. If they wanted to make Express Jet profitable the could. That post I quoted made made it sound like Skywest is moving flying because Express is not profitable. It's just smoke and mirrors
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Originally Posted by N1234
(Post 2239023)
And what is the upside for INC in this "smoke and mirror" game?
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Originally Posted by N1234
(Post 2239023)
And what is the upside for INC in this "smoke and mirror" game?
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Originally Posted by SydKat
(Post 2239039)
To eliminate the bother of having to deal with a union and keep their promises to the employees. Duh. We are taking about St George here.
It is besides the point anyway. You summed it up above - XJET is not was it used to be and buyers beware... |
Originally Posted by gojo
(Post 2239035)
You tell me? But that is complete horse crap that Inc. can't make Express Jet profitable. Skywest didn't get where they are by not knowing how to maximize a business. They're just choosing to build the non union side. Maybe they don't like unions. I don't know. I'm just pretty sure they could've turned it around if the wanted to
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They aren't intentionally running a business into the ground. They are performing a controlled crash of a mistake made by a previous leadership group. This is a gradual wind down. And when it finally makes economic sense to pull the plug, they will. I expect all current employees will be offered is interviews at SkyWest Mainline when it happens.
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Originally Posted by N1234
(Post 2239051)
They for sure don't like unions. But they do like to make money. You don't run a business into the ground for some irrational reason. They are a lot of things but certainly not stupid.
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Originally Posted by gojo
(Post 2239035)
You tell me? But that is complete horse crap that Inc. can't make Express Jet profitable. Skywest didn't get where they are by not knowing how to maximize a business. They're just choosing to build the non union side. Maybe they don't like unions. I don't know. I'm just pretty sure they could've turned it around if the wanted to
When the dust settles , i think ASA side will be fine... |
Originally Posted by N1234
(Post 2239051)
They for sure don't like unions. But they do like to make money. You don't run a business into the ground for some irrational reason. They are a lot of things but certainly not stupid.
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Originally Posted by gojo
(Post 2239103)
I never said that they were stupid. In fact I said the opposite. Indeed they're smart, and I'm pretty sure they could build up Express Jet into a lucrative business like Skywest if they wanted to. To imply that they're having buyers remorse for purchasing Express Jet and ASA is saying that they are stupid. I'm pretty sure the knew what they were getting when they bought them.
But that's why I am puzzled by all these arguments about smoke and mirrors etc. All the arguments in this threat boil down to the believe that INC is out to get XJET - for being a union shop or whatever. I am sure they looked at all the options and came to the conclusion that it isn't worth their time and effort. Maybe they could have done more - who knows - but I assume they explored pretty much every avenue. INCs MO is to deploy capabilities (assets and pilots) where they can be most profitable. SKYW owns the equipment - XJET does not (not sure about ASA). SKYW can move things from UA to AA or DL as they have been doing. I don't think XJET can do that since UA owns the gear (I know there was some AA flying but that was extremely limited from what I understand). And if UA finds a lower bidder - which they apparently did with C5, flying goes there.... I have no dog in this race. But there is value in bringing some rational thinking into the discussion. That will help potential new hires to form their opinion instead of clinging on to false hopes. It sucks for everyone at XJET but I don't think creating "what if's" and "could have's" is meaningful. |
Originally Posted by FlightDirector
(Post 2238795)
What I see in most predictions is SkyWest slowly shutting XJT down by the end of 2017. I realize this is all speculation and a guessing game but XJT seems to be putting a lot of effort into recruiting, surely they have a more optimistic outlook on the future of the company. From what I see I think the majors are going to be really ramping up their hiring starting in 2017. Anychance some of the senior guys at XJT will be moving on and decreasing the upgrade times? If Skywest really does close down XJT surely they'll put a domicile in ATL. Is there anychance XJT pilots will have any sort of priority hiring for SkyWest? Surely they won't just cut that many trained pilots when they also seem to be looking for staff as well.
Originally Posted by N1234
(Post 2239023)
And what is the upside for INC in this "smoke and mirror" game?
Originally Posted by N1234
(Post 2238937)
Do you think INC enjoys losing money? They have been negotiating the contracts to improve the revenue side and they have been working hard to improve cost incl. what many at XJET considered a concessionary contract.
The end result is still revenue < cost and I don't think it is for lack of trying. You can argue who's fault it is but I don't think anyone would want to shut it down if they had a choice. As for giving XJET more profitable 2 cabin class flying .... What do you'd I with your money? Take it to a bank that delivers 5% interest or one that gives you 1% interest?
Originally Posted by N1234
(Post 2238989)
True, INC is profitable overall but the XJET operation is not. I have heard all these arguments of how INC is burdening you with corporate overhead and cost....
You can certainly manipulate the books to your liking but why would INC want to hurt a fundamentally healthy business - if it was fundamentally healthy? It is all left pocket - right pocket for them. It rolls up to one P&L eventually. What would be the endgame? Shut down XJET an rehire an retrain people on the SKYW side - and spend Even more money? Put the conspiracy theory aside. XJET is in a tough spot and I don't think INC would be out to kill them if it was salvageable. The real tragedy here is that people are still mislead thinking it is a viable option.
Originally Posted by N1234
(Post 2239051)
They for sure don't like unions. But they do like to make money. You don't run a business into the ground for some irrational reason. They are a lot of things but certainly not stupid.
Skywest made a mistake when they bought XJT. The mistake wasn't the actual purchase. The mistake was in having negotiated a previous CPA with a 16% pilot concession cost savings built into it. That's the same CPA Skywest got stuck with when they finally pulled the trigger in buying XJT. So there were stuck with a money losing CPA they negotiated. Luckily for them, they were able to shorten that money losing CPA that they negotiated by 3 years. That's three less years of being stuck with their money losing CPA. I'm sure that if they can convince UAL or anyone else to pay them a rate that would be profitable to operate the 145s, they'd go for it. But until then, they are stuck with losing money on their CPA so they are slowly and methodically decreasing those loses by letting the aircraft expire. It is true that they can easily make XJT profitable if they gave them some of the profitable 175 CPA flying. But you are right that it would also cost more simply by pilot compensation costs. So it makes sense not to do that from an upper management (non-front line employee) point of view. And by the way, the TA that was voted down was a MAJOR concessionary TA, more so on the ERJ side but also on the CRJ side. As for the rehiring and retaining of XJT people by Skywest, they would need people anyway. The cost of hiring people will still be there regardless of XJT being shuttered. So there is no additional incurred costs associated with that. Anyway, it may be in Inc's interest to show a loss on the XJT side as a convenient reason to continue the draw down of the money losing CPA. That's if you are the cynical type But I'm not saying that is happening because I don't know. The CPA is probably unprofitable enough to not need to do that anyway, if that's what Inc wanted to do. One last thing, it's a little disingenuous to say they have been trying to say that are trying to cut costs when it costs millions to run to sets of middle and lower management, two sets of staff, two maintenance departments, two dispatch departments, two scheduling departments, two payroll departments, etc. If they can save money (and charging XJT) by having one IT and one benefits department, they can save money on all the other duplicated departments. It is all smoke and mirrors designed to make you think that they treat all their employees fairly and equally. |
Originally Posted by Nevjets
(Post 2239472)
Even if L-XJT is going out of business 12/31/17, they still need to recruit in order to complete flights until that day. So of course they won't tell anyone when the doors are closing, assuming they knew the date certain. They'll recruit until they furlough. As for your other questions, the senior pilots may leave via the CPP since that is a seniority based program. But if Skywest does shutter XJT, I wouldn't count on anything other than a preferential interview at Skywest. They may save a little money on taking any CRJ type rated pilot so maybe that helps your chances of being hired over at Skywest. But I'm solely speaking of the ERJ side.
Skywest made a mistake when they bought XJT. The mistake wasn't the actual purchase. The mistake was in having negotiated a previous CPA with a 16% pilot concession cost savings built into it. That's the same CPA Skywest got stuck with when they finally pulled the trigger in buying XJT. So there were stuck with a money losing CPA they negotiated. Luckily for them, they were able to shorten that money losing CPA that they negotiated by 3 years. That's three less years of being stuck with their money losing CPA. I'm sure that if they can convince UAL or anyone else to pay them a rate that would be profitable to operate the 145s, they'd go for it. But until then, they are stuck with losing money on their CPA so they are slowly and methodically decreasing those loses by letting the aircraft expire. It is true that they can easily make XJT profitable if they gave them some of the profitable 175 CPA flying. But you are right that it would also cost more simply by pilot compensation costs. So it makes sense not to do that from an upper management (non-front line employee) point of view. And by the way, the TA that was voted down was a MAJOR concessionary TA, more so on the ERJ side but also on the CRJ side. As for the rehiring and retaining of XJT people by Skywest, they would need people anyway. The cost of hiring people will still be there regardless of XJT being shuttered. So there is no additional incurred costs associated with that. Anyway, it may be in Inc's interest to show a loss on the XJT side as a convenient reason to continue the draw down of the money losing CPA. That's if you are the cynical type But I'm not saying that is happening because I don't know. The CPA is probably unprofitable enough to not need to do that anyway, if that's what Inc wanted to do. One last thing, it's a little disingenuous to say they have been trying to say that are trying to cut costs when it costs millions to run to sets of middle and lower management, two sets of staff, two maintenance departments, two dispatch departments, two scheduling departments, two payroll departments, etc. If they can save money (and charging XJT) by having one IT and one benefits department, they can save money on all the other duplicated departments. It is all smoke and mirrors designed to make you think that they treat all their employees fairly and equally. Thanks you for this rationale perspective. None of us knows for sure but this makes economic sense. |
If skywest voted in a real union. You might see a desire to merge. Or, if expressjet shrank enough not to matter.
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The last time lxjt had less than 1000 pilots was in 1998. Will they make it 20 yrs above that level?
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Originally Posted by blockplus
(Post 2240194)
The last time lxjt had less than 1000 pilots was in 1998. Will they make it 20 yrs above that level?
Like I have said before, I don't know why we have any FO's left in EWR right now anyway. Commutair is giving a very nice bonus and also upgrading like crazy (upgrading people in the new hire classes). They are moving the 145's into EWR at the start of 2017. With the AA owned offering more money the first year (58,000) than what I made the last couple of years as a 9 year FO at XJT, I am not sure why the IAH or ORD FO's are still at XJT either. I think more guys will leave the bottom of the list than those that go to UA on the CPP at the top of the list for the next year. *These views are my own personal views and beliefs or guesses and do not reflect any management of any other airline including XJT, SkyWest, AA, UA, Commutair/UA, or the cities of EWR, DFW, IAH, or ORD |
So I saw on ExpressJet's Pilot Recruting Facebook page that some of ExpressJet's pilots began training at United.
Does anyone know how many of those pilots were reserves? First Officers? Captains? Im curious what their position was at ExpressJet and what made them attractive to United. This is the first class I've heard of going to United (I'm sure there's been many more and more to come) |
Originally Posted by Jland0413
(Post 2240411)
So I saw on ExpressJet's Pilot Recruting Facebook page that some of ExpressJet's pilots began training at United.
Does anyone know how many of those pilots were reserves? First Officers? Captains? Im curious what their position was at ExpressJet and what made them attractive to United. This is the first class I've heard of going to United (I'm sure there's been many more and more to come) |
Originally Posted by Arliss
(Post 2240455)
This was the first group of people who started class at United after being hired via the CPP. Another 5 will go in December, and then supposedly more starting January. They're all senior captains, probably lineholders.
The more they send to United the better is basically what I'm asking? |
Originally Posted by Jland0413
(Post 2240532)
So this is good movement for everybody right? Now they can move some first officers up to captain and reservists to line holders and so on?
The more they send to United the better is basically what I'm asking? |
What a minute! Stop the clock! You guys flow to United?
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Originally Posted by TalkTurkey
(Post 2240574)
What a minute! Stop the clock! You guys flow to United?
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Originally Posted by jacburn
(Post 2238343)
Ken,
Are you ignoring this question? Did the check airmen get something that the rest of us did not get? Or are you just blowing smoke? I see the SEC Q3 filing that just came out and it appears to say the same thing about closing down that everyone else is preaching. Where is this magical info that you seem to have that says anything different than the closing date of 2017? |
Originally Posted by SydKat
(Post 2239006)
If you live in a domicile and think you can get out before (maybe to an LCC) the doors close, then roll the dice. Maybe use them for an RJ type then take that somewhere else for a hiring bonus and easy training (XJT/ASA has one of the best training departments in the industry). If your plan is to upgrade or even get enough experience to be competitive for a Legacy, you're probably looking in the wrong place.
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Just heard down the grapevine that the company is working on raising FO pay to be the highest in the industry. Not sure if this will be in pay rates, retention bonuses, etc.
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