Adlerdriver

There isn't one.

There also isn't some person tracking JS usage in relation to trips. I've run into a number of pilots who choose to JS into longer flights at times. If one were to pork away the commute and highlight themselves, jumping straight into a long flight might get noticed. At that point, the damage is already done. The last guy I heard about who was removed from a trip was a probationary pilot who ran into commuting problems jumping in prior to an international flight.

Not jumping right into a 777 trip has a lot more to do with avoiding personal hassle and pain than worrying about someone taking me off the trip. The last thing I want to do is miss a 50-90 hour trip and find myself at the alternate for my jumpseat flight looking at some unpaid quality time in MEM trying to salvage my month via make-up.

I just come in off line 10-12 hours prior and use the evening JS as my backup.

VSTOLG4

actually some good level-headed advice here for once. Nobody is jumping on the "don't do it" bandwagon. On probation I would know the risk. After that I would consider back up plans depending on whether you can miss the pay or not.

pinseeker

Exactly! There is a common misconception that the company can remove you from a trip if you J/S into an international departure and don't have a legal rest in between the J/S and show time for the trip. Jumpseat time has nothing to do with duty time. It only comes into play under the no harm no foul protection.

cliffnd

Sort of. CBA 26.J.2.a says if you jumpseat on company equipment into a trip, the first duty period must be less than 13:30 from showtime for jumpseat to 30 minutes after the termination of first duty period. So, while not a Duty Period issue in the traditional use of the term, it effectively is, per the CBA. Also, CBA 26.J.2.c says you must have a minimum of 1:30 hours between scheduled jumpseat block-in and showtime.

How this applies to reserves, I dunno. Since you probably don’t have a trip assignment, it doesn’t seem that these aforementioned paragraphs apply and therefore best judgement might be the rule of law.


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pinseeker

No, you are wrong. The contract says;

2. A pilot may use a Company staging jumpseat to position himself to his base for the start of his scheduled trip in accordance with the following:
a. The period beginning at scheduled showtime of a pilot’s inbound jumpseat and ending 30 minutes after the scheduled termination of his first duty period must be less than 13:30.

b. There must be at least 1:30 hours between the scheduled block-in of the inbound jumpseat and the showtime of the pilot’s trip.

The part you referenced only applies to staging and its protections. There are no limits when using personal or business jumpseats. The contract goes on further to say that if jumpseating ever did count for duty, that section of the contract is void.

TonyC

Not sort of.

26.J. defines the "No Harm, No Foul" Jumpseat Positioning rules. If you follow them, and something falls through so you are unable to report for your scheduled trip, you cannot be disciplined. However, nothing prevents a pilot from scheduling a jumpseat which does not comply with either or both of the scheduling parameters.

If you do NOT follow them to a T and you are nevertheless in position at showtime for your trip, no problem. However, if you do NOT follow them to a T and something falls through so you are unable to report for your scheduled trip, you CAN be disciplined.

For example, 26.J.2.b. (not c.) says, "There must be at least 1:30 hours between the scheduled block-in of the inbound jumpseat and the showtime of the pilot's trip." So, can you schedule a jumpseat which has a scheduled block-in of 1:29 hours prior to the showtime of your trip?

Of course you can. If everything goes as scheduled, no problem. However, if the jumpseat is delayed and you miss your showtime, you may be disciplined for missing your showtime and not complying with 26.J., because it requires 1:30 hours between jumpseat block-in and trip showtime.

The question is, are you willing to gamble? If I were on probation, I wouldn't dream of it. If I were off probation with an important family event, excellent weather forecast, and a backup plan, I would consider it. Your mileage may vary, some settling may occur during transportation.


The bottom line question the pilot should ask is will he be in position at showtime and fit to fly? Only the pilot can make that determination.






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cliffnd

How am I wrong? I just paraphrased those two paragraphs. Are you saying that there is a difference between staging, business, and personal when it comes to getting to work from home? You are right, the opening paragraph does say “staging,” but intent matters right? If I understand you correctly, the loophole around this section we’ve both referenced is to select business over staging (which everyone does anyway for the higher priority). Is that what you are saying? Do we both agree that these paragraphs don’t apply to reserves without an assigned trip at the time of the jumpseat (regardless of staging or not)?

Just curious, where does it say that?


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TonyC

Regardless of what status the pilots "declares" in the jumpseat system, if we're talking about jumpseating to start a trip we're talking about staging.

The key point here is not staging, but the parameters of the "No Harm, No Foul" rule. If the provisions of 26.J.2.a. and b. are not met, that does not prevent the pilot from staging. Failure to meet those provisions only means the pilot will be subject to discipline if he fails to check in by his scheduled showtime.

Neither parameter prevents the scheduling of any category of jumpseat, whether personal, business, staging, decade, or any other.






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TonyC

26.J.2.e.






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cliffnd

So after reading CBA 26.J.2.e, I concur with pinseeker and TonyC. Thanks guys.


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