Fuel initiatives
05-19-2018, 08:16 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by Nightflyer
So, if a pilot at FedEx ever ran out of gas and crashed the plane, who do you think would get the blame?
If any of us “run out of gas and crash” because of pressure from management any blame falls completely on us. If you take the gas offered and conditions support that decision and you continue to make good decisions, explain to me how the situation results in running out of gas and crashing.
Diverting? Declaring an emergency? Landing short? Sure. But “crashing” simply due to lack of fuel?
Let’s try to stay in the reality ballpark.
05-19-2018, 08:26 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Two Wheeler FrontSeat
Posts: 1,162
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
The crew would be blamed and rightly so.
If any of us “run out of gas and crash” because of pressure from management any blame falls completely on us. If you take the gas offered and conditions support that decision and you continue to make good decisions, explain to me how the situation results in running out of gas and crashing.
Diverting? Declaring an emergency? Landing short? Sure. But “crashing” simply due to lack of fuel?
Let’s try to stay in the reality ballpark.
If any of us “run out of gas and crash” because of pressure from management any blame falls completely on us. If you take the gas offered and conditions support that decision and you continue to make good decisions, explain to me how the situation results in running out of gas and crashing.
Diverting? Declaring an emergency? Landing short? Sure. But “crashing” simply due to lack of fuel?
Let’s try to stay in the reality ballpark.
05-19-2018, 09:23 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,096
Coming from another airline I was surprised by how much extra fuel we carry compared to the passenger world. No kidding we didn’t even ask one another “how does the fuel look” and I don’t remember adding extra fuel regularly like we do here. You would be late if you did add fuel so nobody did it. But our dispatchers were much better with keeping us informed about the flows into an airport — especially New York and Chicago.
Spare me the phrases, “but our system form”, “our business model is different”, and “we guarantee our product is on time unlike the passenger industry.”
I always thought it was funny during the interview we have to make a life or death PIC decision in a few minutes but operationally we carry a lot of fuel.
If you really feel the need to add extra, if possible diverts are limited, add it. Otherwise it just seems silly in the middle of the night with the national airspace dead to have a bunch of fuel.
And don’t take this message the wrong way. I have no problems calling the dispatcher and letting them know we added fuel. But we have all flown with the Captain who always addded fuel. That mentality needs to die.
Spare me the phrases, “but our system form”, “our business model is different”, and “we guarantee our product is on time unlike the passenger industry.”
I always thought it was funny during the interview we have to make a life or death PIC decision in a few minutes but operationally we carry a lot of fuel.
If you really feel the need to add extra, if possible diverts are limited, add it. Otherwise it just seems silly in the middle of the night with the national airspace dead to have a bunch of fuel.
And don’t take this message the wrong way. I have no problems calling the dispatcher and letting them know we added fuel. But we have all flown with the Captain who always addded fuel. That mentality needs to die.
05-19-2018, 09:24 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by Reese
This isn't landing on a boat anymore, you have plenty of options. Always hated the flight leads who set a landing fuel of 5.5 (Rhino, that's 2hrs of loitering) on a VFR day with 4 runways when SOP was 2.2. Might as well say, "I know BFM training rules are 500', but I'm a risk adverse panzy, so we're going to do 1000' passes."
There's no reason to show up overhead MEM with 18k (almost 1.5hrs of loiter time) of fuel on a VFR day with 4 runways. Overhead with 12-13k, sure, that's a plan for long vectors. And when that go around happens with 11k of fuel on board, you get paid $300k+ a year to make tough decisions when **** hits the fan. Totally different with weather or single runway, but we're talking VFR in MEM.
If you want to continue to have a company to work for, you should think about what's affecting their bottom line. Look at United in the 2000's, Alaska today, they're all "****ed" and embraced a "we'll show the company" mentality. All they did/are doing is hurting themselves as employees.
Don't become a "yes" man. But add gas when it makes sense, start the APU when it makes sense, LTAET when it makes sense, turn the radar off when it makes sense. Be a professional.
A defensive driver isn't bad, but there becomes a point where you become so defensive, you become dangerous again.
There's no reason to show up overhead MEM with 18k (almost 1.5hrs of loiter time) of fuel on a VFR day with 4 runways. Overhead with 12-13k, sure, that's a plan for long vectors. And when that go around happens with 11k of fuel on board, you get paid $300k+ a year to make tough decisions when **** hits the fan. Totally different with weather or single runway, but we're talking VFR in MEM.
If you want to continue to have a company to work for, you should think about what's affecting their bottom line. Look at United in the 2000's, Alaska today, they're all "****ed" and embraced a "we'll show the company" mentality. All they did/are doing is hurting themselves as employees.
Don't become a "yes" man. But add gas when it makes sense, start the APU when it makes sense, LTAET when it makes sense, turn the radar off when it makes sense. Be a professional.
A defensive driver isn't bad, but there becomes a point where you become so defensive, you become dangerous again.
05-19-2018, 12:16 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 652
Originally Posted by Reese
This isn't landing on a boat anymore, you have plenty of options. Always hated the flight leads who set a landing fuel of 5.5 (Rhino, that's 2hrs of loitering) on a VFR day with 4 runways when SOP was 2.2. Might as well say, "I know BFM training rules are 500', but I'm a risk adverse panzy, so we're going to do 1000' passes."
There's no reason to show up overhead MEM with 18k (almost 1.5hrs of loiter time) of fuel on a VFR day with 4 runways. Overhead with 12-13k, sure, that's a plan for long vectors. And when that go around happens with 11k of fuel on board, you get paid $300k+ a year to make tough decisions when **** hits the fan. Totally different with weather or single runway, but we're talking VFR in MEM.
If you want to continue to have a company to work for, you should think about what's affecting their bottom line. Look at United in the 2000's, Alaska today, they're all "****ed" and embraced a "we'll show the company" mentality. All they did/are doing is hurting themselves as employees.
Don't become a "yes" man. But add gas when it makes sense, start the APU when it makes sense, LTAET when it makes sense, turn the radar off when it makes sense. Be a professional.
A defensive driver isn't bad, but there becomes a point where you become so defensive, you become dangerous again.
There's no reason to show up overhead MEM with 18k (almost 1.5hrs of loiter time) of fuel on a VFR day with 4 runways. Overhead with 12-13k, sure, that's a plan for long vectors. And when that go around happens with 11k of fuel on board, you get paid $300k+ a year to make tough decisions when **** hits the fan. Totally different with weather or single runway, but we're talking VFR in MEM.
If you want to continue to have a company to work for, you should think about what's affecting their bottom line. Look at United in the 2000's, Alaska today, they're all "****ed" and embraced a "we'll show the company" mentality. All they did/are doing is hurting themselves as employees.
Don't become a "yes" man. But add gas when it makes sense, start the APU when it makes sense, LTAET when it makes sense, turn the radar off when it makes sense. Be a professional.
A defensive driver isn't bad, but there becomes a point where you become so defensive, you become dangerous again.
05-19-2018, 03:30 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by Airbum
i'm curious, Are these MD11 fuel numbers? What is emergency fuel for FedEx on the MD11?
Our new fuel policy will go into effect in July and will lower that to 9K. They have decided to stick with a hard fuel weight due to the MD11 fuel system complexity.
The rest of the fleets will use a "dynamic 30 minute Fuel" which apparently is "dynamic" because it will be determined using the planned LGW for that flight.
05-20-2018, 04:27 AM
#19
Fill'er Up Again
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Scarebus Captain
Posts: 1,089
All this, yet we nearly flamed out an Airbus.... Good thing those gauges are accurate. I had the fuels slips off recently so they had to dip the tanks. Came up with the 3 different numbers.. Maint used the best guess to figure out with was right.
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