Originally Posted by Adlerdriver

Every once in a while an "I used to have PBS and it was great" post shows up. The underlying message I'm receiving from your post is that the anti-PBS sentiment prevalent at FedEx is the result of unfamiliarity, incorrect assumptions and an unwillingness to seek knowledge about it.

At least you appear to understand the limitations we face if we ever go down that path toward PBS (0 for 4) - Control has always been held close to the vest by the Company. That will not change. Transparency is allowed reluctantly and is rarely complete in any area. The negotiator issue has been beat to death - there is absolutely no way we EVER come out on top (or even at parity) of a PBS system negotiation.

Finally, the only thing a willingness to learn and educate ourselves about PBS (beyond what many already have) will accomplish is to further entrench the crew force to resist it at all costs.

One of the great things I discovered about working for an airline when I left my previous life was the amazing amount of flexibility. Trip trades, outright drops, chase QOL, chase $ or a balance, bid conflicts and leverage that into a better trip, roll the bones and stay home on reserve for weeks at a time, etc.

The reason that level of flexibility exists is because of regular line bidding. Conflicts, vacation, training all end up creating massive disruptions to some of those lines. Reserve lines have to be built to protect the flying and that requires guesswork to some extent. It's educated guesswork but the planners still need to cast a pretty wide net of reserves to ensure they don't get caught flat-footed. The bottom line is that it's inherently inefficient.

With that inefficiency comes opportunity for a large portion of our more junior pilot population to benefit. An intentional or simply lucky conflict on the initial bid may give a junior pilot access to trips he might not otherwise get. Same thing for training months. Others who are willing to wait can get trips via secondary lines that more senior pilots couldn't hold and weren't willing to pursue via their own secondary. Finally, anyone willing to spend some time hawking open time can (but not always) find opportunities to massage their schedule. Why? Because life happens and people drop and trade trips or R-days, trips get disrupted and revised, etc.

Control, transparency, the best negotiators on the planet and an educated crew force don't change the FACT that PBS removes most of those inefficiencies.

"Oh... but I always got what I wanted with PBS." - Usually spoken by someone who had pretty good seniority. New flash - at some point down the list people stop getting what they wanted and start getting what they can hold - Just like bidding regular lines. The difference is that the senior get what they want under either system. Those further down the list lose ALL opportunities to exploit the inefficiencies and use out current system to their benefit. They simply get what they can hold. A less flexible system that locks everyone in where they fall on the seniority list month after month with little to no opportunity for the junior folks to get the occasional "birdie chip shot" that keeps them coming back to the course with some optimism.

Vacations are scheduled around - no conflicts. Carryover is scheduled around - no conflicts. Recurrent training is scheduled around - no conflicts. No conflicts means little to no open time. Going down the list and scheduling everyone for all the trips means no open time. No open time means no trip trading - so whatever you get is what you got (so it damn well better be "what you wanted" - because it ain't changing).
On the reserve side, no conflicts means fewer pilots on reserve. Since all the trips get built into lines, the planners get to surgically schedule reserves exactly where they're needed. We've already seen what the new PBS... I mean Secondary line system has done and will do to the Reserve lines many who live in domicile have bid over the years in pursuit of QOL and time at home. That will only get worse with full PBS.

Then there's vacation. I don't care how good negotiators are, how much transparency and control the company offers, there is no way that we walk away from a PBS negotiation with a better vacation system than we have now. Most likely it will be decimated.

So, please stop with the "If we only were more enlightened and willing to learn and be educated, we'd understand how great it could be". PBS would be the biggest, most colossal error in judgment this pilot group could make - even bigger than voluntarily getting rid of our A-plan.

Originally Posted by Adlerdriver

Every once in a while an "I used to have PBS and it was great" post shows up. The underlying message I'm receiving from your post is that the anti-PBS sentiment prevalent at FedEx is the result of unfamiliarity, incorrect assumptions and an unwillingness to seek knowledge about it...

...

So, please stop with the "If we only were more enlightened and willing to learn and be educated, we'd understand how great it could be"...

Originally Posted by Adlerdriver

So, please stop with the "If we only were more enlightened and willing to learn and be educated, we'd understand how great it could be". PBS would be the biggest, most colossal error in judgment this pilot group could make - even bigger than voluntarily getting rid of our A-plan.

Originally Posted by gatorhater

Ding Ding Ding. PBS is a system you negotiate. It can be good like ASA has, it can be crappy like Continental had, or somewhere in between like Delta. It doesn’t have to be the devil many here think it is, but you’ve got to have control, transparency, good negotiators and a crew force willing to learn and educate themselves. Currently we are 0 for 4.

Originally Posted by gatorhater

On a bit of a side note: What I can say about scheduling is I’m amazed at how archaic our scheduling interface is with VIPS. I’m also surprised there is no trade board for pilots easily to trade amongst ourselves. You know I’ll give up my XYZ for a JFK type posting. Oh well, new job, new things to learn.

Originally Posted by busdriver12

There is a facebook page for Airbus capts and fo's. Not enough people on there, but it's been helpful for many.

Originally Posted by appDude

FxCal has a built in Swap bulletin board that has been very successful in many seats.
Two advantages over other attempts: you do not need to check a different site or wade through somebody else's spam just to see if it is something you may want.
Trips are in the presented in the same format as other open time and checked every time you check open time with the company.
(when godaddy is not messing with my server)

Originally Posted by FrankTheTank

+1. Now if there was way we could advertise to swap rdays...