busdriver12

For sure!

FrankTheTank

+1+2+3+4+5

Kipper

I have called the union about this -- a couple of times. Once, the woman, think her name was Rose said that "we don't have a problem with the lay flat in business." I asked who "We" is... I said "we" is definitely not me because there is a huge difference when you are in a plane for 15 hours and you are in business or first. I explained the difference in space and privacy and often in business you may have to climb over someone to get up or they are climbing over you. So, that particular phone call was a complete waste of time. The other time I was told by a man that I could try to expense it based on the duty day but he wasn't sure it would be reimbursed. Again - no help whatsoever. Just a waste of time as usually is the case whenever I call the union. I know we have quite a few deadheads with duty days well over 17 hours. So frustrating about that lay flat trumps everything else. Why on earth would there have been any other provisions if nothing else mattered? Oh well.

Rock

Since it seems like I spend almost as much time deadheading as I do riding up front, I spend a lot of time trying to optimize my personal comfort by ensuring I get the biggest bang for my trip bank buck within the limits of our contract. I don’t think our contract on this topic is as confusing as some people think it is. Whether we end up in first class or business class has less to do with lay flat seats than it does block time and the contractual priority for how global travel books our seats. Others can chime in, but the only time I have been scheduled for a deadhead of greater than 16 hours, I was booked in first class on a ticket that cost $17,000. Business class was available on that flight in a fully lay flat seat for $8500. I was almost certain the travel folks were going to try to book me in business and I was ready for a fight, and then my reservation showed up exactly as it should have. There were four similar trips that month and I reviewed all four and all four were booked the same way as mine. So I can’t be the only one who has received the contractually correct first class ticket.
I took a look at the October 777 bidpack to try to find a pairing with a deadhead greater than 16 hours. The first one I found was trip 220 starting 1 Oct. It includes an LAX to SIN deadhead with a block time of 17:15. Great...that should definitely be a first class ticket right? Except it isn’t. The scheduled deadhead is on a United 787 that only has business class. So my initial thought is “they are screwing us”. So I decided to find a first class seat that meets the requirements of our contract. Our contract says that any deadhead scheduled for greater than 16 hours has to be on a non-stop flight. No problem. Singapore Airlines flies A380’s. They obviously have first class. Why didn’t the company use them? Turns out Singapore A380’s don’t fly direct from the US to Singapore. They stop in Hong Kong or Frankfurt. Total flight time including the layover is over 20 hours. And since it isn’t a direct flight, it doesn’t meet our contractual requirements. The only direct flight from the US to SIN on Singapore Airlines is on an A350 which only has business class. So if I was on that trip, did the company screw me by booking me in a business class seat for a flight with a block time of over 16 hours? No. In accordance with our contract, they actually had no choice.
With respect to the LAX to HKG deadhead that started this thread, I think the hole the company is using (and I think is screwing us with) is that class of service generally depends on block time of the deadhead. A “higher class” is authorized for “a scheduled block time” of greater than 5 hours. First class is authorized for “a scheduled block time” of 10 hours or greater. And then we get to the part about 16 hours or greater. The contract says this... “If the deadhead is scheduled for more than 16 hours duty, the following shall apply:”. **** poor wording that isn’t consistent with the wording in the other sections and opens the door for the company to interpret as “greater than 5 hours block time, greater than 10 hours block time, greater than 16 hours block time”. I can’t find a definition for “the deadhead is scheduled”. My interpretation is 16 hour duty day. The company’s interpretation appears to be 16 hour block time. That is why I got a first class seat on a flight with a 17.5 hour block time, and they are booking business class seats for the LAX to HKG flight that has a 14.5 hour block time.
Finally, several airlines no longer use “first class” or “business class” to describe their booking classes on international long haul flights. United is one of them. So is Delta. So if our contract said “Tickets must be booked only in designated first class seats” you’d wipe out several airlines if we didn’t have that controversial clause in our contract that says “ Regardless of a passenger carrier’s nomenclature or hierarchy for classes of service, a Flat Bed Seat satisfies the higher class of service requirements set forth in this Section .” Delta uses “Delta Premium Select” and “Delta One” as their nomenclature for higher classes of international service. Only one of those includes a lay flat seat. Neither one is called “business class” or “first class”. If we didn’t have that lay flat seat clause, I strongly suspect our company would consider “Delta Premium Select” a “higher class of service” and book us in those seats for international flights 16 hours or less.

The Walrus

Reference grievance 16-01.We lost in arbitration.

Fdxlag2

Definitions are important and what the company does now and what they will try to get away with in the future are two different things. I just spent 33 hours at the Elizabeth Courtyard so ask me how I know.

8.A.5.c. Higher Class of Service
i. Regardless of a passenger carrier’s nomenclature or hierar-
chy for classes of service, a Flat Bed Seat satisfies the higher
class of service requirements set forth in this Section.

2.60. FLAT BED SEAT
A seat on a commercial deadhead carrier that when fully reclined is greater
than 175 degrees.