Or instead of a modest improvement in both DB and DC plan, why not just a bigger DC improvement and leave the DB alone? That way you dispense with the emotions.


How long was freight being left on the ramp? Maybe it’ll take years of freight being left to move the line. I have patience, do you?

I found this presentation worth watching again. I know it's been posted here before, but percolating it back to the top of the stack. This is Cheiron's presentation to ALPA on the version of the plan from 2017-18 timeframe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvjGtv6POFM

I struggle with my own limited understanding of the bells/whistles of finance. I watch his presentation, I can hang on to the logic, but at the end of it, I keep asking "what's the catch?" How can there literally be no downside?

So on one hand, I don't want pilots to manage the retirement investment decisions. This plan does that. But on the other hand, I have to totally trust Cheiron Inc to not go full Enron/Madoff with the millions of dollars at their fingertips. So what's my comfortable balance here? Currently searching for that answer.

So even if I do trust the math presented, is Cheiron a company worth trusting for the next 50 years? I'm not sure the risk there is worth it for me personally. I'm still an undecided voter WRT the PSPP. I'm in my early 40s, have saved my whole life and lived quite conservatively. My family's future will be totally fine with just the B Plan 9% plus what I do with personal investing. That doesn't mean I want to **** away any version of a defined benefit plan.

I just don't know what I don't know. From flight deck conversations I've had for the last several years, I'm finding there are more out there like me. Adamant anonymous internet opinions screamed at me with catch phrases and memes have zero effect. I seek data that will yield a brilliant hue of green in retirement. That's it.

Excellent post. Trust but verify is not as easy when we aren’t the subject matter experts and the verification is beyond our normal scope. I agree with you completely in addition to the fact that seniority in many facets is more of a suggestion than a rule at Purple. This alone renders the PSPP unfit in our current system.

I seem to remember many pilots concerned over the lie flat seat verbiage. They didn’t trust the language so they verified with the Union what it meant. The Union vehemently stated they could defend the intent...they had the meeting notes...just trust us...y’all are wrong.

Then the company abused the language and we lost the grievance.

It’s hard to trust and verify when the group you are verifying with has a track record of getting their a s s handed to them in mediation...that is when they actually go to mediation. More than likely they’ll agree with the company’s position or try to talk you out of the grievance. If you persist, they’ll let you file it on your own without their support. Yes, that’s actually going on right now with a grievance that has merit.

As I said in the survey, I have zero trust in the union’s ability to defend intent and battle the company’s Varsity contract lawyers. Therefore, I have zero trust in the pancake plan. Retirement is too important an issue to try and nail down an unproven concept backed by notoriously weak Union leadership with a propensity to fold like a lawn chair when it really matters.

[QUOTE=DirtyPurple;3227198]I found this presentation worth watching again. I know it's been posted here before, but percolating it back to the top of the stack. This is Cheiron's presentation to ALPA on the version of the plan from 2017-18 timeframe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvjGtv6POFM

I think the DC plan is simple. The company pays us for life a guaranteed amount. That amount is set by the IRS and is currently $230,000. Thats $100,000 more a year than we are getting. The company also has an obligation to pay us EVERY year a GUARANTEED amount for life. How hard is it to understand the value of this? There is no variable up or down in payment from the DC. I plan my 401K risk by knowing that If I don't get the returns I hope for, I will always have at least the company DC plan. I retire in 4 yrs and I can live off of the DC plan as it stands now. But, the DC plan should be what the company promised, half of FAE at the IRS cap. That cap was $130,000 when the company agreed to it decades ago. At the least, the DC should have a COLA. We have carried the load for this past year and longer and we should share in the profits the company is making. I don't think this is so hard for us to get, the raise in FAE cap, that company won't agree to
it. And, everyone getting hired now should have the same value of their DC that I have now, ie, at least a COLA.

If you haven’t done so, please go to my site fedexpilotretirement.wordpress.com - when creating a username, use your first four letters of last name and last four numbers of emp id- I can verify your info on our seniority list from that.

First, Cheiron:
- Cheiron is an actuarial firm and would not be part of handling money
- they sell ideas to companies
- their first “hybrid” variable rate plan went into effect in 2012

Plan:
- the catch is benefits CAN go down (variable)
- Greg states model has “no service cap”
—- would have to be negotiated
—- and why couldn’t we get that for current plan?
- he states estimated IRS cap limits (290,000 for 2021, btw)
—- Again, would need negotiated
—- but we don’t want ANY tie because IRS moved limit in 1994 from 230K to 150K (that would suck)
—- that is TONYC point regarding contract CAP (260), is not the IRS CAP
—- again, if 290 is good for modeler and negotiated by union, why can’t we negotiate 290 for contract cap?
- he states “investment managers”
—- most likely remain at FedEx in their pension plan assets
—- all needs negotiated

I have pages of notes about all the videos, I created my own “modeler,” but essentially, you COULD get less benefits.
- PBGC won’t guarantee any “new” plan for 5 years
- modeler uses 1,000 CH though Min BLG is 884
- modeler uses 50/50 S&P 500 & Bonds from 1999 to 2017, but did they put in average earnings from 4.a.2.b? (No)
- did modeler use seat locks for 5 years like some previous seat bids?

Company sheds investment (return) risk and transfers to individual. So BOTH your DC (B plan) AND DB (A plan) are your responsibility. Company pays an amount (negotiated percent) of pensionable earnings (definition negotiated).

Is it too good to be true? Considering most do not understand ALL the idiosyncrasies involved - they just trust the modeler (though we can’t access it anymore). You be the judge, but please perform due diligence and get access to my site. I can only show you the door, you have to walk through!

Cheers

Waffles
 

Unlock your door so that we don’t have to ask you for a key to get in and read all this information you implore us to read.

F’ing awesome! We need to do this.

I haven’t yet because all the podcast transcripts with my comments have the rep names. The added benefit - didn’t want trolls like Noworkallplay to be using info on there to help them seem like fedex pilots here.

We have new hires that might see this thread before any others - so I offer the site for that reason.

For the many that have seen the site, they know it’s free and has no ads. I Gain nothing personally from it except helping fedex pilots to understand what we have, where all this stuff originated, and hopefully generate questions regarding the PSPP to ask their reps. I share the original Cheiron PowerPoint that talks about pancakes and to date, not one person including our reps, researched cheiron enough to get that same info. I spoke with PBGC for several hours and with Fedex Retirement fund specialists to address the premiums topic in next couple weeks.

Surprising what information is available for those of us that have spent days, weeks, months researching on ALL of our behalf, but some resist the two minutes to put in an email and create a username that can be confirmed on seniority list.

FastB, thanks again for your research there. I have a login to your site; hadn't been on there to see your January update. I'll start working through that now.

You are a big brain, and I appreciate you putting that info together. I understand why you're protecting the data during negotiations. Any FedEx pilot can access it with a few steps.

I attended the union GoToMeeting earlier today...I'm anxious to see what the openers will be. I feel like this will be such a fundamental change to my plan going forward that I can't base it on my emotions or financial ignorance of this new plan.