OMG AA’s backpay
07-09-2023 | 02:24 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 0
From: Gear Monkey
It's easy to promise anything in an agreement if you can abrogate it with Force Majeure.....I was hired by United after the "summer of love" contract.....and the contract was astounding from an industry perspective. I was also hired by FedEx at the same time. I was told I was a liar, that there was no way I would be a FedEx if I was hired by United....I was told that I was "F'n Stupid and that I 'deserved' to be with F'n losers at FedEx" from other FedEx pilots when the mantra was "Delta + a nickel".....I was 35 years old and the average age of new hire was 33 for the last three years before I got out of the military....they were merging with US Airways....In retrospect I was a frikin genius......That contract disappeared.
You can promise anything in a contract if you don't think you'll have to see it through due to Force Majeure.....These pax carriers have proven that they will furlough and renegotiate many times at the drop of a hat. They cabbaged retirement programs and bought little airplanes for subsidiaries....
I'm not sure I share your enthusiasm for the future economy....I believe we have a better chance of us seeing our TA payrates in 2027 then they have of seeing theirs.
A friend reminded me I told him years ago "Pigs get fat....Hogs get slaughtered".....different context, different time, but it feels relevant today. For those who complain that FedEx doesn't know how many to hire...hire too little (good thing), then hire too much, then explain to me how we haven't had any furloughs in our history....worst that happened was 4A2B and I took a brunt of that. FedEx has a different business model and paradigm than the passenger carriers....with the exception of "Zap Mail", there have been very few large blunders......
There is a grass is greener syndrome so strong among some that they are might be best served by leaving....this may be a golden moment in time. For whatever reason, you feel like you got to the "Party", late at Fedex....you were at the wrong end of a business cycle, or wanted to secure that sweet mil retirement job before applying (because, you know...FedEx is always a gimme), or you weren't brave enough to make the leap, or you were such a jerk you couldn't get an endorsement, or you were working your tail off and not like any of those guys, and timing just sucked. This is a turbulent business and anyone that tries to tell you it isn't doesn't know what he or she is talking about. The ability to move to more comfortable waters is a valuable skill, whether it is a seat, airframe, domicile or carrier. Largely you won't be able to control contracts....at least individually....evidenced by the fact there seems to be a strident group opposing my viewpoint who says I'm going to lose. The nasty ugly remarks about seniority could have been written by me during the Age 65 thing....I get it....but remember that Seniority is always relative to someone else, and your biggest effect on your personal seniority is your decision....Just because your new hire classmate bought the mini-mansion and upgraded to Captain at the two year point does not mean its the right decision for you.....and anyone that says "in Unity" and we want to "Improve the profession" is virtue signaling.......the ones who want to improve the profession volunteer a heck of a lot of time (I don't agree with his assessment, but TonyC is someone who I believe is wrong....but puts a tremendous amount of time, energy, and good will into his efforts to improve the profession).
You only have to be junior once.....you guys are complaining about stagnation, but you are deriding people for wanting to take an increase in retirement before going out the door...they spent five or more years on the panel of the 727 doing exclusively night hub turns building the company and the contract into a place you thought you wanted to be at for ever.....I am surprised when I see immature and childish statements like "its time for you to leave"....as if you had a say in anyone's longevity on property.
If you think you need to leave, I would advise against it....but I won't write you a check if my advise is wrong....sorry. If you think you need to stay....then I think you'll be ahead in the long run. If you are going to be angry and miserable if this TA passes, and can't let go...then for your own mental health, perhaps you should have gone to the Pax carrier to begin with. FDX does not suit everyone, Pax work does not suit everyone.......don't try to squeeze into something because of the money.....money comes and goes.
In the end, you'll never know if you made the right decision regarding the TA or leaving or staying with FDX until you can view it in retrospect. If you are wrong, no one will "make you whole"....no one will write a check to compensate you for "what should have happened" based on the rightness of your decision regarding the TA or Carrier choice. No matter 'how many likes" you got on your pithy social media post, we all have to live with the impact of our decisions. I trust my track record of assessing what's right for me a heck of a lot better than I do Pax carriers promise to fulfill a contract with its pilots. I am fully ok with my "YES" vote no matter how many of you deride my motivations and publicly defame Pat May.
You can promise anything in a contract if you don't think you'll have to see it through due to Force Majeure.....These pax carriers have proven that they will furlough and renegotiate many times at the drop of a hat. They cabbaged retirement programs and bought little airplanes for subsidiaries....
I'm not sure I share your enthusiasm for the future economy....I believe we have a better chance of us seeing our TA payrates in 2027 then they have of seeing theirs.
A friend reminded me I told him years ago "Pigs get fat....Hogs get slaughtered".....different context, different time, but it feels relevant today. For those who complain that FedEx doesn't know how many to hire...hire too little (good thing), then hire too much, then explain to me how we haven't had any furloughs in our history....worst that happened was 4A2B and I took a brunt of that. FedEx has a different business model and paradigm than the passenger carriers....with the exception of "Zap Mail", there have been very few large blunders......
There is a grass is greener syndrome so strong among some that they are might be best served by leaving....this may be a golden moment in time. For whatever reason, you feel like you got to the "Party", late at Fedex....you were at the wrong end of a business cycle, or wanted to secure that sweet mil retirement job before applying (because, you know...FedEx is always a gimme), or you weren't brave enough to make the leap, or you were such a jerk you couldn't get an endorsement, or you were working your tail off and not like any of those guys, and timing just sucked. This is a turbulent business and anyone that tries to tell you it isn't doesn't know what he or she is talking about. The ability to move to more comfortable waters is a valuable skill, whether it is a seat, airframe, domicile or carrier. Largely you won't be able to control contracts....at least individually....evidenced by the fact there seems to be a strident group opposing my viewpoint who says I'm going to lose. The nasty ugly remarks about seniority could have been written by me during the Age 65 thing....I get it....but remember that Seniority is always relative to someone else, and your biggest effect on your personal seniority is your decision....Just because your new hire classmate bought the mini-mansion and upgraded to Captain at the two year point does not mean its the right decision for you.....and anyone that says "in Unity" and we want to "Improve the profession" is virtue signaling.......the ones who want to improve the profession volunteer a heck of a lot of time (I don't agree with his assessment, but TonyC is someone who I believe is wrong....but puts a tremendous amount of time, energy, and good will into his efforts to improve the profession).
You only have to be junior once.....you guys are complaining about stagnation, but you are deriding people for wanting to take an increase in retirement before going out the door...they spent five or more years on the panel of the 727 doing exclusively night hub turns building the company and the contract into a place you thought you wanted to be at for ever.....I am surprised when I see immature and childish statements like "its time for you to leave"....as if you had a say in anyone's longevity on property.
If you think you need to leave, I would advise against it....but I won't write you a check if my advise is wrong....sorry. If you think you need to stay....then I think you'll be ahead in the long run. If you are going to be angry and miserable if this TA passes, and can't let go...then for your own mental health, perhaps you should have gone to the Pax carrier to begin with. FDX does not suit everyone, Pax work does not suit everyone.......don't try to squeeze into something because of the money.....money comes and goes.
In the end, you'll never know if you made the right decision regarding the TA or leaving or staying with FDX until you can view it in retrospect. If you are wrong, no one will "make you whole"....no one will write a check to compensate you for "what should have happened" based on the rightness of your decision regarding the TA or Carrier choice. No matter 'how many likes" you got on your pithy social media post, we all have to live with the impact of our decisions. I trust my track record of assessing what's right for me a heck of a lot better than I do Pax carriers promise to fulfill a contract with its pilots. I am fully ok with my "YES" vote no matter how many of you deride my motivations and publicly defame Pat May.
In Unity (for Everyone),
DLax
p.s. Is the fact the NC agreed to NOT allow new hires to have a choice between retirement plans a concession? Why would they do that if the MBCB Plan is better? Wouldn’t the new hires just rationally chose it, if they had a choice and it was clearly true?
Last edited by DLax85; 07-09-2023 at 02:38 PM.
07-09-2023 | 02:48 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 568
Likes: 0
From: Stuck in Purple Limbo
NO virtue signaling - just a lot of unanswered questions - and a big NO vote.
In Unity (for Everyone),
DLax
p.s. Is the fact the NC agreed to NOT allow new hires to have a choice between retirement plans a concession? Why would they do that if the MBCB Plan is better? Wouldn’t the new hires just rationally chose it, if they had a choice and it was clearly true?
In Unity (for Everyone),
DLax
p.s. Is the fact the NC agreed to NOT allow new hires to have a choice between retirement plans a concession? Why would they do that if the MBCB Plan is better? Wouldn’t the new hires just rationally chose it, if they had a choice and it was clearly true?
07-09-2023 | 05:30 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 568
Likes: 0
From: Stuck in Purple Limbo
[QUOTE=Stan446;3663185]Pretty sure at the end of the day no one is going to accuse me of being a sellout DB. Although I’m sure you’ll hide behind your vote and tell everyone you were a NO. Didn’t you say something about post your vote and be done before? Curious as to why you’re still even lurking…
07-09-2023 | 07:24 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Dude you can’t even quote properly. Maybe learn that before rolling your eyes at those who can at least use the website properly?
By the way, do you remember these???
What happened Stanley??? The road show really sold you? Same as 2015??? You realized you’re bouncing at 60 so what the hell I’ll vote yes anyways and get my extra $30k a year?? Then spend a bunch of time clowning on people for being on here speaking their minds when you’re spending your time doing the same exact thing?
Enjoy retirement next year.
By the way, do you remember these???
Some food for thought:
How is FedEx doing financially 2022?
The improved results were driven by a 28% increase in revenue per shipment from the continued focus on revenue quality and profitable growth. Capital spending for fiscal 2022 was $6.8 billion. During fiscal 2022 the company repurchased $2.2 billion of FedEx common stock.
FedEx Corp. Reports Second Quarter Results
Fiscal 2023............ Fiscal 2022
Revenue $22.8 billion............ $23.5 billion
Operating income $1.18 billion............ $1.68 billion
Operating margin 5.2% ............ 7.1%
Net income $788 million................ $1.30 billion
In the fiscal year of 2022, Delta Air Lines reported a net income of around 1.3 billion U.S. dollars, up from 280 million U.S. dollars net income registered the previous year. In 2020, the U.S. airline posted a net loss as a result of decreased operations due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
FX. 2.2 billion dollar stock buy back FSC 2022!
FedEx and Delta net income almost equal but DL can pay its pilots more for a crew force more than double FX?
How is FedEx doing financially 2022?
The improved results were driven by a 28% increase in revenue per shipment from the continued focus on revenue quality and profitable growth. Capital spending for fiscal 2022 was $6.8 billion. During fiscal 2022 the company repurchased $2.2 billion of FedEx common stock.
FedEx Corp. Reports Second Quarter Results
Fiscal 2023............ Fiscal 2022
Revenue $22.8 billion............ $23.5 billion
Operating income $1.18 billion............ $1.68 billion
Operating margin 5.2% ............ 7.1%
Net income $788 million................ $1.30 billion
In the fiscal year of 2022, Delta Air Lines reported a net income of around 1.3 billion U.S. dollars, up from 280 million U.S. dollars net income registered the previous year. In 2020, the U.S. airline posted a net loss as a result of decreased operations due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
FX. 2.2 billion dollar stock buy back FSC 2022!
FedEx and Delta net income almost equal but DL can pay its pilots more for a crew force more than double FX?
You need to read the room. You are in the wrong place if you think you are going to convince people to vote Yes here with lame statements as, "Seniority stagnation". Thats laughable. Right now, the status Quo, meaning the contract we are under is better than the new TA. We know what we have right now. Voting for a TA with sections that we don't know what adverse affects will have for the crew force might be the wrong move.
But I doubt you speak for anyone close to 60 or above. A paltry increase in the A plan is not enough to get guy to retire. Pilots are greedy and increased pay rates are enough to have pilots stick around until they are way closer to 65. There isn't going to be an mass exodus of senior guys. I'm 59 and most likely out by 60 regardless of whether this contract will pass. If you haven't got your house in order with a nice 401k, then you have messed up and maybe thats why you are so desperate to have this TA pass. Really, a paltry $32,500/yr pension increase is what you so desperately need to screw over everyone else?
But I doubt you speak for anyone close to 60 or above. A paltry increase in the A plan is not enough to get guy to retire. Pilots are greedy and increased pay rates are enough to have pilots stick around until they are way closer to 65. There isn't going to be an mass exodus of senior guys. I'm 59 and most likely out by 60 regardless of whether this contract will pass. If you haven't got your house in order with a nice 401k, then you have messed up and maybe thats why you are so desperate to have this TA pass. Really, a paltry $32,500/yr pension increase is what you so desperately need to screw over everyone else?
What happened Stanley??? The road show really sold you? Same as 2015??? You realized you’re bouncing at 60 so what the hell I’ll vote yes anyways and get my extra $30k a year?? Then spend a bunch of time clowning on people for being on here speaking their minds when you’re spending your time doing the same exact thing?
Enjoy retirement next year.
07-09-2023 | 07:41 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 568
Likes: 0
From: Stuck in Purple Limbo
Dude you can’t even quote properly. Maybe learn that before rolling your eyes at those who can at least use the website properly?
By the way, do you remember these???
What happened Stanley??? The road show really sold you? Same as 2015??? You realized you’re bouncing at 60 so what the hell I’ll vote yes anyways and get my extra $30k a year?? Then spend a bunch of time clowning on people for being on here speaking their minds when you’re spending your time doing the same exact thing?
Enjoy retirement next year.
By the way, do you remember these???
What happened Stanley??? The road show really sold you? Same as 2015??? You realized you’re bouncing at 60 so what the hell I’ll vote yes anyways and get my extra $30k a year?? Then spend a bunch of time clowning on people for being on here speaking their minds when you’re spending your time doing the same exact thing?
Enjoy retirement next year.
Well said!
What’s that new Alzheimer’s drug? Let’s ask sign up and buy Stan a dose or five…
07-09-2023 | 07:52 PM
#17
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 169
Likes: 8
What happened Stanley??? The road show really sold you? Same as 2015??? You realized you’re bouncing at 60 so what the hell I’ll vote yes anyways and get my extra $30k a year?? Then spend a bunch of time clowning on people for being on here speaking their minds when you’re spending your time doing the same exact thing?
Enjoy retirement next year.
Enjoy retirement next year.
07-09-2023 | 08:27 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 568
Likes: 0
From: Stuck in Purple Limbo
READ the TA… if you can do that you’ll realize what it is then you’ll vote NO.
07-09-2023 | 09:55 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,371
Likes: 12
I never said I sat sideways for 5 years...I sat sideways for 8 months....I said that guys going out the door right now...some of them sat sideways for 5 years.
I'm not retiring anytime soon.
I'm one of the few guys that will admit to voting yes in 2015. I'll tell anyone that wants to know. I'm also not afraid to tell them why.
You can quote Tony all you want...that doesn't mean I agree with his assessment. Fear is not a currency I deal in. I'm not panicky about wet leasing or DE Shaw, I'm not concerned about Chapter1, or Student Makeup or any of the corner cases some have elevated to "end of world" status.....You can call me naive, stupid, or unconcerned, but fearful makes no sense.
I just don't think you guys are smart enough to do what needs to be done in a timely manner...and what little you yield won't be worth the time it took to get it. You do not display acumen....just tantrums and I'm unimpressed.. I'm surprised at how threatened and ugly you get when exposed to someone who doesn't echo your group think.
I'm not retiring anytime soon.
I'm one of the few guys that will admit to voting yes in 2015. I'll tell anyone that wants to know. I'm also not afraid to tell them why.
You can quote Tony all you want...that doesn't mean I agree with his assessment. Fear is not a currency I deal in. I'm not panicky about wet leasing or DE Shaw, I'm not concerned about Chapter1, or Student Makeup or any of the corner cases some have elevated to "end of world" status.....You can call me naive, stupid, or unconcerned, but fearful makes no sense.
I just don't think you guys are smart enough to do what needs to be done in a timely manner...and what little you yield won't be worth the time it took to get it. You do not display acumen....just tantrums and I'm unimpressed.. I'm surprised at how threatened and ugly you get when exposed to someone who doesn't echo your group think.
07-09-2023 | 10:17 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 0
I never said I sat sideways for 5 years...I sat sideways for 8 months....I said that guys going out the door right now...some of them sat sideways for 5 years.
I'm not retiring anytime soon.
I'm one of the few guys that will admit to voting yes in 2015. I'll tell anyone that wants to know. I'm also not afraid to tell them why.
You can quote Tony all you want...that doesn't mean I agree with his assessment. Fear is not a currency I deal in. I'm not panicky about wet leasing or DE Shaw, I'm not concerned about Chapter1, or Student Makeup or any of the corner cases some have elevated to "end of world" status.....You can call me naive, stupid, or unconcerned, but fearful makes no sense.
I just don't think you guys are smart enough to do what needs to be done in a timely manner...and what little you yield won't be worth the time it took to get it. You do not display acumen....just tantrums and I'm unimpressed.. I'm surprised at how threatened and ugly you get when exposed to someone who doesn't echo your group think.
I'm not retiring anytime soon.
I'm one of the few guys that will admit to voting yes in 2015. I'll tell anyone that wants to know. I'm also not afraid to tell them why.
You can quote Tony all you want...that doesn't mean I agree with his assessment. Fear is not a currency I deal in. I'm not panicky about wet leasing or DE Shaw, I'm not concerned about Chapter1, or Student Makeup or any of the corner cases some have elevated to "end of world" status.....You can call me naive, stupid, or unconcerned, but fearful makes no sense.
I just don't think you guys are smart enough to do what needs to be done in a timely manner...and what little you yield won't be worth the time it took to get it. You do not display acumen....just tantrums and I'm unimpressed.. I'm surprised at how threatened and ugly you get when exposed to someone who doesn't echo your group think.
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