So, UPS is hiring now? Not what they indicate on their forum.

Be careful. Some of the loudest voices for a NO vote are the same people such as Shaman who were claiming in 2020/21 that this is the best job in the industry and that those who weren't padding their paychecks were chumps. Yeah, these guys are looking out for everyone else. :rolleyes: 318 says it is way too expensive for any airline to furlough, yet he left United because he thought he was going to be furloughed. If you think your only job in negotiations is to vote, you will get what you worked for. Though I don't agree with BrianH's approach, he did try to get things accomplished. TonyC tried a recall, and took grief, now he is the default leader of those who gave him grief. Fickle much? I was saying in 2021 that the time to get engaged was now, and don't wait for the train to leave the station. The same people who are now mad were saying that we should all just wait and see and that the MEC speaks for them. Now, they want recalls and a new negotiation committee, but no real plan moving forward except the hope that the company will give us a better TA and that the NMB will take our side and say the company isn't bargaining in good faith and declare an impasse that leads to a cooling off period. United's last TA was announced May 13,2022. That was shot down. United said they would match Delta pay, not move the bar. They still don't have a new TA. The AA TA doesn't raise the bar. So, you think that we are going to get Delta+ rates because we went above and beyond during COVID? Wake up. At least 70% of the pilots I have talked to who were hired in 2015 or later are in favor of this TA. It's a small sample, but indicates to me that those claiming that this is going down in flames are wrong. It may not pass, it may pass. Unfortunately either way, I think it will be close. Maybe if those who say their only job is to vote paid attention, we wouldn't be in this situation. Will we learn our lesson, probably not. Coffee, other than the hiring question, most of this isn't directed specifically at you.

100% of the post 2015 hires I know are voting AGAINST. Not a huge sample size but not irrelevant.

In what universe does voting no on a TA require that individual union member also *personally* devise a new negotiation strategy for the entire Union?

This is frankly a moronic criticism.

Voting is a fundamental right and privilege of being a member in good standing.

Same…..everyone I know post 2015 is a no.

Well said.

Voting is 30% emotions , 60% physical and 20% based on your seniority 😂😂

If this is true, the TA will not pass.

You know that is not what I was saying. You know that I was addressing those who are doing more. Those who are actively trying to garner more no votes. Those who are calling for a replacement of the MEC and NC. Those who are actively campaigning against this TA. To those people, what is the plan?

When you don't have a better response, throw out an insult like calling an opinion moronic.

So, if we enter 4a2b or 4a2c, what is the motivation for the company to give us Delta+? What is the motivation for the company to simply improve upon what was already TA''d? What makes you think we won't be in mediation 18 months from now? What makes you think the NMB will consider releasing us to self help in the next 24 months? How much more do you think we will gain in that time frame?

Yay the leverage argument again...

Id rather be in mediation 18 months from now than accept this garbage TA that will have us be a second tier airline for 18 years.

I will not sell out everyone now and in the future for a new shiny (industry lagging) paycheck.

But you do you. We will see who is in the majority

Okay let me try to help.

The plan is simple, but understanding all the rules takes a little time.

The first thing that should happen is the MEC should be professional enough to understand they failed to involve the pilots during the process. Being in transmit only mode did not work well. So they start a new survey to learn what they missed.

Next we the membership decide who we want the represent us. Resignations may also happen. Either way, we the membership will put in place the team we want going forward.

Next, the NC will need new blood. Fair enough. I have no doubt there are several ready to serve.

Along with the survey, the pilots will want to know the value and costs of the "efficiency Gains" in TA 1.0.

Then our new team will refocus and reengage.


Some other things to think about, we are going into a presidential election cycle. What do markets do during those times? Also the inventories stored during Covid are starting to dwindle, orders are up. We are seeing more extra pairing to bring extra freight from Asia.


In short, Even if we go into 4.a.2.b or c, it won't be for long. The training cost associated with the last round brought us New Section 24 to mitigate the training costs, which will still be high.

Further, any pilot furloughed will be welcomed at all the majors.

In short, We have to look past the smokescreens. Our future is brighter if we stand together and demand professional treatment and fair compensation.

If we take this TA, how long does it take to get back the work rules we give up in the name of "productivity gains"? I for one don't wish to find out.