threeighteen

Uh no.

Under TA 1.0, the A fund was terminated for all newhires and they were slapped with a retirement plan worse than DL has.

Anyone with more than a few years left on the property would have had to choose between the new awful plan or ride out the a plan even though it would never be improved again.

The whole thing was a total joke unless you had 25 years of service and within a year or two of turning 60, or already there.

Spectre186

I really love how our Union just assumed that they knew what the crew force wanted with regards to retirement. What a colossal failure! Just even a little bit of transparency could’ve averted this failed TA.

Merle Haggard

They have been actively trying to shove this particular plan down everyone's throat for at least five years now. It precedes contract negotiations. It really makes one speculate........

Spot13

With the same damn company. For those of you who do not believe this, go back to the pancake plan videos.

Adlerdriver

To equate the recent TA pension plan (MBCBP) with the pancake plan of 2018 is either simple ignorance or pursuit of an agenda. I can respect someone who decided the MBCBP didn't meet their standards and/or the A-plan increases weren't sufficient. But to weave in a plan that was abandoned over 5 years ago and never saw the light of day during current section 6 negotiations makes your arguments difficult to take seriously - same for you Mr. Spot13.

DLax85

Why would any changes/improvements to scope only be codified in a “side letter”?

Are “side letters” voted on by the membership at-large ?

In Transparency, Integrity & Unity (for Everyone),
DLax

p.s. Rescind the scheduling/QOL concessions too!

DLax85

I don’t think it’s a stretch
Both are precisely what the company desired
Move away from a defined benefit plan to a defined contribution plan

Both would shift the investment return risk onto pilots, but not put those investments under pilot control

The union would never reveal the actual company contribution percentage, hurdle rate, cap rate or floor during the PSPP - they told us, it would have to be negotiated

Well, the NC negotiated …. and the MBCBP has a 11% contribution, no actual hurdle rate (rather a 6.5% goal), no cap rate (a good thing), and a floor which guarantees overall cumulative returns can’t be negative over the life of the pilots contributions (essentially guaranteed minimum return of 0%)

Same exact plan? No
Highly correlated? Absolutely

In Transparency, Integrity & Unity (for Everyone),
DLax

p.s. An Agenda? Yes! To NOT give away/sunset the A Plan.

Spot13

You are correct when you speak to our Fidelity we are assigned the young'ins could make more money if the stars align. The will have to buy out my A plan which will not be cheap.

Here are some links and notice the same company is mentioned and in June 2023 look at the post called "Cheiron back in the house"

Here are some links that show this started in December 2016. So I would disagree with Merle that it has been at least 7 years.

https://www.alpa.org/news-and-events...n%20percentage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29uiHDWZgi8

go to the June 22 2023 road show and at 16:44 Cheiron shows its name again.

Why does the company want to sunset the A plan? That is a lot of money sitting there only available to us and not the company. Cheiron pops up like Waldo with ALPA ready to lead the way with the pancake plan, then the Variable Benefit plan and now the re-acronymed MBCBP

Merle Haggard

Thank you for spelling it out. Sometimes people don't see the obvious.

Adler, you were saying?

Adlerdriver

I stand by my initial post. The pancake plan isn't represented in TA 2023. There was no "pancake" created by your work each year that would be stacked up for retirement. There were adjustments made to account for pilots out on LTD. With very conservative return estimates, it had the potential to create a significantly higher pension (or lump sum) for future pilots retiring from FedEx. Is it market based? Yes. Managed by the same people who successfully have managed the A-plan fund exceeding expected market gains year over year. With fiduciary responsibility to meet those reasonable return estimates. You want to take that out of their hands and do your best? What's that line about how to have a pilot earn 1 million in the stock market?
But, at this point it's moot. The bottom line is, that wasn't sufficient for the majority. Actually, the scope bogey-man probably did the TA in rather than retirement, but that's another discussion.
If you think we can continue to drag the A-plan boat anchor into each negotiation and still come out on top with other factors like pay rates and work rules, great. The pension reform legislation makes that much more difficult while we service a roughly 3:1 ratio of cost versus pension improvements. I hope things turn out the way everyone wants. I'll continue to ignore anyone who starts talking pancakes because just because there might be some basic unconnected similarities doesn't make it a valid comparison.

PS - We can continue to snipe back and forth about retirement semantics but I'm curious:
Any thoughts about the OT in the MEM 777 and MD that got everyone so riled up and created a response from PD? Those trips sure did disappear quickly, didn't they?
I wonder how many NO voters out there found themselves recipients of those XTRA trips. Can anyone connect the dots or are we back to flying smarter? Looks like some of the ANC bros are holding off. Hopefully that's an actual personal decision and not just a case of lack of pilots. I'll believe the latter for now. Small bases tends to correct their own.