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Thrust Hold 07-31-2023 04:13 AM


Originally Posted by Rock (Post 3675371)
Bless you Fr8Master. You’re the first to get to the heart of the matter. I agree with you. Anyone know the status of the postal contract?

Contract expires September 2024.

Shaman 07-31-2023 04:13 AM


Originally Posted by Rock (Post 3675370)
I am one of us. And unfortunately, I seem to be on the side that doesn’t understand it needs to make its own case. Does anyone actually understand how negotiations work? You don’t just show up and expect the other side to give you whatever you want. I’ve repeatedly asked one simple question. What new leverage do we have going into renewed negotiations that will convince management to cough up more money? Maybe you’ll be the first to answer it.

Your question has been answered repeatedly you just don't accept the answer. So you asking the question again is entirely rhetorical. We have the same leverage we had in April of this year when we authorized a strike by 99%. Some time subsequently the company was said to move 83% in our direction on the remaining open sections pay duration and amenable payment. Our leverage has not changed since then. There is no "new" leverage needed.
A negotiation can be many different things but if you want to win limiting your asks and expressing a fear of loss will undermine your efforts.
TA1 was not a win. It was a low watermark in a long history of giving away things we like to get things we mght like better. It might feel like a win but it's really attrition.
It's pretty clear that the Company and the Union leadership are dumbfounded. We have a history of approving TAs and now we haven't and it appears they're not quite sure what to do. They could have offered something better but why do that when voting has historically been a mere formality.
Its their move now.

pinseeker 07-31-2023 06:27 AM


Originally Posted by Shaman (Post 3675459)
Your question has been answered repeatedly you just don't accept the answer. So you asking the question again is entirely rhetorical. We have the same leverage we had in April of this year when we authorized a strike by 99%. Some time subsequently the company was said to move 83% in our direction on the remaining open sections pay duration and amenable payment. Our leverage has not changed since then. There is no "new" leverage needed.
A negotiation can be many different things but if you want to win limiting your asks and expressing a fear of loss will undermine your efforts.
TA1 was not a win. It was a low watermark in a long history of giving away things we like to get things we mght like better. It might feel like a win but it's really attrition.
It's pretty clear that the Company and the Union leadership are dumbfounded. We have a history of approving TAs and now we haven't and it appears they're not quite sure what to do. They could have offered something better but why do that when voting has historically been a mere formality.
Its their move now.


Our leverage certainly has changed, and not for the better in the immediate future. The strike vote was leverage when the NMB indicated that the company wasn't being reasonable. Now, with recalls, new polling, opening new sections etc..., that vote holds little threat. 24 months from now, maybe that vote will regain the leverage it had, but for now, we continue to be our own worst enemies.

UnusualAttitude 07-31-2023 06:41 AM


Originally Posted by pinseeker (Post 3675519)
Our leverage certainly has changed, and not for the better in the immediate future. The strike vote was leverage when the NMB indicated that the company wasn't being reasonable. Now, with recalls, new polling, opening new sections etc..., that vote holds little threat. 24 months from now, maybe that vote will regain the leverage it had, but for now, we continue to be our own worst enemies.

Guess we should have just voted yes and cemented our place as a second tier career choice. At least the NMB wouldn’t be mad at us.

Temocil27 07-31-2023 06:52 AM


Originally Posted by pinseeker (Post 3675519)
…but for now, we continue to be our own worst enemies.

By voting down a TA? That’s the only decision the crew force has made apart from the strike authorization vote. I don’t know about you, but I didn’t sign up to spend my career at a 2nd tier airline.

Flying Boxes 07-31-2023 07:29 AM


Originally Posted by pinseeker (Post 3675519)
Our leverage certainly has changed, and not for the better in the immediate future. The strike vote was leverage when the NMB indicated that the company wasn't being reasonable. Now, with recalls, new polling, opening new sections etc..., that vote holds little threat. 24 months from now, maybe that vote will regain the leverage it had, but for now, we continue to be our own worst enemies.

Your post scream management! Are you PD?

Anthrax 07-31-2023 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by pinseeker (Post 3675519)
Our leverage certainly has changed, and not for the better in the immediate future. The strike vote was leverage when the NMB indicated that the company wasn't being reasonable. Now, with recalls, new polling, opening new sections etc..., that vote holds little threat. 24 months from now, maybe that vote will regain the leverage it had, but for now, we continue to be our own worst enemies.

we get it. you didn’t get what you wanted. now grow up, and let’s do better this round.

and of course we have leverage. we always have leverage. the company needs us to fly freight, a lot, a little, the demand for our services still exists.

if you wanna be mad, be mad at management. had they not over-hired all these regional pukes to the tune of 700, that would be roughly the difference between the TA failing or passing.

BertMacklinFBI 07-31-2023 08:16 AM


Originally Posted by Anthrax (Post 3675572)
we get it. you didn’t get what you wanted. now grow up, and let’s do better this round.

and of course we have leverage. we always have leverage. the company needs us to fly freight, a lot, a little, the demand for our services still exists.

if you wanna be mad, be mad at management. had they not over-hired all these regional pukes to the tune of 700, that would be roughly the difference between the TA failing or passing.

nice shot, bro. I’m a “regional puke” that voted no but I’ve been here 7 years. A lot of us that knows what it means to not be a yes man, voted no. No need to try and throw rocks, buddy. I’m sure a lot of your military bubbas were also hired amongst the “pukes” and also voted no.

UnusualAttitude 07-31-2023 08:28 AM

Deleted due to misunderstanding.

Anthrax 07-31-2023 08:28 AM


Originally Posted by BertMacklinFBI (Post 3675590)
nice shot, bro. I’m a “regional puke” that voted no but I’ve been here 7 years. A lot of us that knows what it means to not be a yes man, voted no. No need to try and throw rocks, buddy. I’m sure a lot of your military bubbas were also hired amongst the “pukes” and also voted no.

sure. I voted no. and my point had nothing to do with you pukes. my point is, get over the way the vote went, and lets do better for military bubbas and regional pukes alike.


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