No one left behind!
08-01-2023, 09:40 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 261
No one left behind!
There is a lot of work for the next TA but I want to focus on one key item.
I believe retirement for all since amenable date should be a must have. I understand that number will grow from the 300, but it will serve a couple purposes
-rally all under the same umbrella. I saw more than 500+ senior block voters vote no per the Union result email. (So you meet one of those gals or guys thank them for that). Can you imagine the energy we can harness if we ensure that this feature is a must have for next TA. We are not the ones who delayed raising the retirement payout limit, the company did. They did it for over 2 decades. It is time to pay up.
-it will set the precedent that you can no longer drag your feet on negotiations. So what happens on the next TA that does not include it? We vote it down and again and again. The FedEx our founder built is gone (it is natural for successful businesses to take our new path). It is all about efficiency and stock prices. This is not a family airline, this a business and that business has costs. The time for COVID emails and tv interviews of what was accomplished are over. It is time to pay. If our company states it is the best cargo airline on the planet per JD email then our compensation package should reflect that. We did not stall negotiations for 2 years, expecting the economy to take a downturn or the majors to roll out meager TAs/AIPs. (Economy is soft landing and each day it looks like it will be a touch and go). Actually, we started early, 6 months, expecting our labor would have born fruit for a great TA. It did not.
What is leverage? I heard gloom then lo and behold we got significant business from a competitor for Aug onward. Is this not leverage? Leverage going forward will be fluid.
Do you believe our competitors will not attempt to pounce on our labor woes for the next couple months to years it takes for the next TA? I believe they will. Peak is coming, UPS negotiations are coming
Lastly, there is so much talk about division but I have had more meaningful conversations with yes voters since failure. Guess what? They want the same thing we all want (they wanted it pre failure as well), an industry leading TA, we just have different ideas of how to get there.
I know there are folks up and down the seniority chain who wants what we all want - an industry leading TA commensurate with our labor and the profitability we bring to the company (past and potential).
So as you make your TA must have list and for the surveys, please save space for not a single pilot left behind since amenable date for improved retirement package!
14-20 years left at this place, Let’s GO!
I believe retirement for all since amenable date should be a must have. I understand that number will grow from the 300, but it will serve a couple purposes
-rally all under the same umbrella. I saw more than 500+ senior block voters vote no per the Union result email. (So you meet one of those gals or guys thank them for that). Can you imagine the energy we can harness if we ensure that this feature is a must have for next TA. We are not the ones who delayed raising the retirement payout limit, the company did. They did it for over 2 decades. It is time to pay up.
-it will set the precedent that you can no longer drag your feet on negotiations. So what happens on the next TA that does not include it? We vote it down and again and again. The FedEx our founder built is gone (it is natural for successful businesses to take our new path). It is all about efficiency and stock prices. This is not a family airline, this a business and that business has costs. The time for COVID emails and tv interviews of what was accomplished are over. It is time to pay. If our company states it is the best cargo airline on the planet per JD email then our compensation package should reflect that. We did not stall negotiations for 2 years, expecting the economy to take a downturn or the majors to roll out meager TAs/AIPs. (Economy is soft landing and each day it looks like it will be a touch and go). Actually, we started early, 6 months, expecting our labor would have born fruit for a great TA. It did not.
What is leverage? I heard gloom then lo and behold we got significant business from a competitor for Aug onward. Is this not leverage? Leverage going forward will be fluid.
Do you believe our competitors will not attempt to pounce on our labor woes for the next couple months to years it takes for the next TA? I believe they will. Peak is coming, UPS negotiations are coming
Lastly, there is so much talk about division but I have had more meaningful conversations with yes voters since failure. Guess what? They want the same thing we all want (they wanted it pre failure as well), an industry leading TA, we just have different ideas of how to get there.
I know there are folks up and down the seniority chain who wants what we all want - an industry leading TA commensurate with our labor and the profitability we bring to the company (past and potential).
So as you make your TA must have list and for the surveys, please save space for not a single pilot left behind since amenable date for improved retirement package!
14-20 years left at this place, Let’s GO!
Last edited by Yuko; 08-01-2023 at 10:08 PM.
08-02-2023, 05:30 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2023
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by Yuko
There is a lot of work for the next TA but I want to focus on one key item.
I believe retirement for all since amenable date should be a must have. I understand that number will grow from the 300, but it will serve a couple purposes
-rally all under the same umbrella. I saw more than 500+ senior block voters vote no per the Union result email. (So you meet one of those gals or guys thank them for that). Can you imagine the energy we can harness if we ensure that this feature is a must have for next TA. We are not the ones who delayed raising the retirement payout limit, the company did. They did it for over 2 decades. It is time to pay up.
-it will set the precedent that you can no longer drag your feet on negotiations. So what happens on the next TA that does not include it? We vote it down and again and again. The FedEx our founder built is gone (it is natural for successful businesses to take our new path). It is all about efficiency and stock prices. This is not a family airline, this a business and that business has costs. The time for COVID emails and tv interviews of what was accomplished are over. It is time to pay. If our company states it is the best cargo airline on the planet per JD email then our compensation package should reflect that. We did not stall negotiations for 2 years, expecting the economy to take a downturn or the majors to roll out meager TAs/AIPs. (Economy is soft landing and each day it looks like it will be a touch and go). Actually, we started early, 6 months, expecting our labor would have born fruit for a great TA. It did not.
What is leverage? I heard gloom then lo and behold we got significant business from a competitor for Aug onward. Is this not leverage? Leverage going forward will be fluid.
Do you believe our competitors will not attempt to pounce on our labor woes for the next couple months to years it takes for the next TA? I believe they will. Peak is coming, UPS negotiations are coming
Lastly, there is so much talk about division but I have had more meaningful conversations with yes voters since failure. Guess what? They want the same thing we all want (they wanted it pre failure as well), an industry leading TA, we just have different ideas of how to get there.
I know there are folks up and down the seniority chain who wants what we all want - an industry leading TA commensurate with our labor and the profitability we bring to the company (past and potential).
So as you make your TA must have list and for the surveys, please save space for not a single pilot left behind since amenable date for improved retirement package!
14-20 years left at this place, Let’s GO!
I believe retirement for all since amenable date should be a must have. I understand that number will grow from the 300, but it will serve a couple purposes
-rally all under the same umbrella. I saw more than 500+ senior block voters vote no per the Union result email. (So you meet one of those gals or guys thank them for that). Can you imagine the energy we can harness if we ensure that this feature is a must have for next TA. We are not the ones who delayed raising the retirement payout limit, the company did. They did it for over 2 decades. It is time to pay up.
-it will set the precedent that you can no longer drag your feet on negotiations. So what happens on the next TA that does not include it? We vote it down and again and again. The FedEx our founder built is gone (it is natural for successful businesses to take our new path). It is all about efficiency and stock prices. This is not a family airline, this a business and that business has costs. The time for COVID emails and tv interviews of what was accomplished are over. It is time to pay. If our company states it is the best cargo airline on the planet per JD email then our compensation package should reflect that. We did not stall negotiations for 2 years, expecting the economy to take a downturn or the majors to roll out meager TAs/AIPs. (Economy is soft landing and each day it looks like it will be a touch and go). Actually, we started early, 6 months, expecting our labor would have born fruit for a great TA. It did not.
What is leverage? I heard gloom then lo and behold we got significant business from a competitor for Aug onward. Is this not leverage? Leverage going forward will be fluid.
Do you believe our competitors will not attempt to pounce on our labor woes for the next couple months to years it takes for the next TA? I believe they will. Peak is coming, UPS negotiations are coming
Lastly, there is so much talk about division but I have had more meaningful conversations with yes voters since failure. Guess what? They want the same thing we all want (they wanted it pre failure as well), an industry leading TA, we just have different ideas of how to get there.
I know there are folks up and down the seniority chain who wants what we all want - an industry leading TA commensurate with our labor and the profitability we bring to the company (past and potential).
So as you make your TA must have list and for the surveys, please save space for not a single pilot left behind since amenable date for improved retirement package!
14-20 years left at this place, Let’s GO!
08-17-2023, 08:43 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 261
Here is a ticker for consideration.
We left 300 behind with the biggest increase to the A plan, that number will grow. As it grows I hope you arrive at what number is acceptable. If we can accept such inappropriate terms for those that have served 15, 20, 25, 30, 35+ years, what terms should we accept for us (50+% on the MSL hired in the last 5-6 years) who have yet to reach those milestones? My number is zero left behind since amenable date. I understand hard choices have to be made but we surprised sunset the A plan, rolled out an inadequate replacement for new hires and anyone with less than 25+ years to go along with several truckloads of concessions. Yet, 300 was an acceptable number!
We should not have to survey don’t divide us and leave so many behind.
ALPA Pilot dashboard
2023 has 66 retirements…is 366 (300+66) acceptable?
2024 has 164 retirements…is 530 acceptable?
2025 has 161 retirements….is 691 acceptable?
To the new ALPA team being assembled, do not bring us a TA 2.0 that divides us with another union divisive pension scheme and leaves so many out in the cold!
I hear the refrain, old guy/gal had 3 contracts to fix it, let us acknowledge that 1) they fought to keep the A plan for ALL, 2) FDX ALPA was not raised to be confrontational with our company. It was a get along to go far culture with FDX#1. Times have changed, our company is changing, we must evolve. But, cultures don’t change overnight (recall process is a necessary part of that regardless of outcome).
Until then save some room on your survey for not a single pilot left behind. May your acceptable number be zero for TA2.0. Let’s GO!
We left 300 behind with the biggest increase to the A plan, that number will grow. As it grows I hope you arrive at what number is acceptable. If we can accept such inappropriate terms for those that have served 15, 20, 25, 30, 35+ years, what terms should we accept for us (50+% on the MSL hired in the last 5-6 years) who have yet to reach those milestones? My number is zero left behind since amenable date. I understand hard choices have to be made but we surprised sunset the A plan, rolled out an inadequate replacement for new hires and anyone with less than 25+ years to go along with several truckloads of concessions. Yet, 300 was an acceptable number!
We should not have to survey don’t divide us and leave so many behind.
ALPA Pilot dashboard
2023 has 66 retirements…is 366 (300+66) acceptable?
2024 has 164 retirements…is 530 acceptable?
2025 has 161 retirements….is 691 acceptable?
To the new ALPA team being assembled, do not bring us a TA 2.0 that divides us with another union divisive pension scheme and leaves so many out in the cold!
I hear the refrain, old guy/gal had 3 contracts to fix it, let us acknowledge that 1) they fought to keep the A plan for ALL, 2) FDX ALPA was not raised to be confrontational with our company. It was a get along to go far culture with FDX#1. Times have changed, our company is changing, we must evolve. But, cultures don’t change overnight (recall process is a necessary part of that regardless of outcome).
Until then save some room on your survey for not a single pilot left behind. May your acceptable number be zero for TA2.0. Let’s GO!
09-27-2023, 06:59 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 261
The survey is out! We have another opportunity to right many wrongs in the failed TA.
Please consider not a single pilot left behind since amenable date for retirement bump. It was another Union busting feature of the failed TA and we should not repeat our mistake.
We did not delay an increase in retirement and we should not be in the business of incentivizing delay tactics that will disenfranchise even more of our brothers and sisters.
~370 by end 2023. This grows to 700 by the end of 2025. My number is zero, I petition for you to make it yours!
Not a single pilot left behind. Let’s GO!
Please consider not a single pilot left behind since amenable date for retirement bump. It was another Union busting feature of the failed TA and we should not repeat our mistake.
We did not delay an increase in retirement and we should not be in the business of incentivizing delay tactics that will disenfranchise even more of our brothers and sisters.
~370 by end 2023. This grows to 700 by the end of 2025. My number is zero, I petition for you to make it yours!
Not a single pilot left behind. Let’s GO!
09-27-2023, 08:45 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Two Wheeler FrontSeat
Posts: 1,162
Originally Posted by yuko
the survey is out! We have another opportunity to right many wrongs in the failed ta.
Please consider not a single pilot left behind since amenable date for retirement bump. It was another union busting feature of the failed ta and we should not repeat our mistake.
We did not delay an increase in retirement and we should not be in the business of incentivizing delay tactics that will disenfranchise even more of our brothers and sisters.
~370 by end 2023. This grows to 700 by the end of 2025. My number is zero, i petition for you to make it yours!
Not a single pilot left behind. Let’s go!
Please consider not a single pilot left behind since amenable date for retirement bump. It was another union busting feature of the failed ta and we should not repeat our mistake.
We did not delay an increase in retirement and we should not be in the business of incentivizing delay tactics that will disenfranchise even more of our brothers and sisters.
~370 by end 2023. This grows to 700 by the end of 2025. My number is zero, i petition for you to make it yours!
Not a single pilot left behind. Let’s go!
09-28-2023, 07:09 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 446
Originally Posted by Yuko
The survey is out! We have another opportunity to right many wrongs in the failed TA.
Please consider not a single pilot left behind since amenable date for retirement bump. It was another Union busting feature of the failed TA and we should not repeat our mistake.
We did not delay an increase in retirement and we should not be in the business of incentivizing delay tactics that will disenfranchise even more of our brothers and sisters.
~370 by end 2023. This grows to 700 by the end of 2025. My number is zero, I petition for you to make it yours!
Not a single pilot left behind. Let’s GO!
Please consider not a single pilot left behind since amenable date for retirement bump. It was another Union busting feature of the failed TA and we should not repeat our mistake.
We did not delay an increase in retirement and we should not be in the business of incentivizing delay tactics that will disenfranchise even more of our brothers and sisters.
~370 by end 2023. This grows to 700 by the end of 2025. My number is zero, I petition for you to make it yours!
Not a single pilot left behind. Let’s GO!
The best way to ensure success is for everyone to focus on the NOW and the Future, roll up their sleeves and help rebuild and focus on TA 2.0.
Anyone not working with us to improve our CBA needs to consider helping out. We all win together. Let's fight for best value.
09-30-2023, 10:41 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 261
There is funny rumor going around that we will attempt to do only 3 things to squeeze out a TA1.5 before 31 Dec 2023. The 3 things are increase pay rates, increase retro and soften scope language. I feel confident that if our strategy resembles this funny rumor there will be enough NOs waiting again.
You know what is not funny, the 300 sisters and brothers that in unity our ALPA leadership did not take care of with a retirement improvement. The choices we make reflect what we value. TA1.0 said if you are close to retirement during section 6 there is a high chance that you will receive a value of zero. There is no business speak that sets this right. As this number grows I hope you will realize this as an inadequacy of TA1.0.
You can’t preach unity to us youngsters when we will discard so many and treat it as a suitable outcome.
We talked about being 700 overmanned and furloughs to be had. Here is a better number to discuss: 300 turns 500 next year!
Until then don’t forget to fill out your surveys and leave some room for no pilot left behind. This is a negotiation not a holdup.
To the 300 retirees (and those about to join their ranks), you can put your hands down. Let’s GO!
You know what is not funny, the 300 sisters and brothers that in unity our ALPA leadership did not take care of with a retirement improvement. The choices we make reflect what we value. TA1.0 said if you are close to retirement during section 6 there is a high chance that you will receive a value of zero. There is no business speak that sets this right. As this number grows I hope you will realize this as an inadequacy of TA1.0.
You can’t preach unity to us youngsters when we will discard so many and treat it as a suitable outcome.
We talked about being 700 overmanned and furloughs to be had. Here is a better number to discuss: 300 turns 500 next year!
Until then don’t forget to fill out your surveys and leave some room for no pilot left behind. This is a negotiation not a holdup.
To the 300 retirees (and those about to join their ranks), you can put your hands down. Let’s GO!
10-01-2023, 12:19 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,091
Originally Posted by Yuko
There is funny rumor going around that we will attempt to do only 3 things to squeeze out a TA1.5 before 31 Dec 2023. The 3 things are increase pay rates, increase retro and soften scope language. I feel confident that if our strategy resembles this funny rumor there will be enough NOs waiting again.
You know what is not funny, the 300 sisters and brothers that in unity our ALPA leadership did not take care of with a retirement improvement. The choices we make reflect what we value. TA1.0 said if you are close to retirement during section 6 there is a high chance that you will receive a value of zero. There is no business speak that sets this right. As this number grows I hope you will realize this as an inadequacy of TA1.0.
You can’t preach unity to us youngsters when we will discard so many and treat it as a suitable outcome.
We talked about being 700 overmanned and furloughs to be had. Here is a better number to discuss: 300 turns 500 next year!
Until then don’t forget to fill out your surveys and leave some room for no pilot left behind. This is a negotiation not a holdup.
To the 300 retirees (and those about to join their ranks), you can put your hands down. Let’s GO!
You know what is not funny, the 300 sisters and brothers that in unity our ALPA leadership did not take care of with a retirement improvement. The choices we make reflect what we value. TA1.0 said if you are close to retirement during section 6 there is a high chance that you will receive a value of zero. There is no business speak that sets this right. As this number grows I hope you will realize this as an inadequacy of TA1.0.
You can’t preach unity to us youngsters when we will discard so many and treat it as a suitable outcome.
We talked about being 700 overmanned and furloughs to be had. Here is a better number to discuss: 300 turns 500 next year!
Until then don’t forget to fill out your surveys and leave some room for no pilot left behind. This is a negotiation not a holdup.
To the 300 retirees (and those about to join their ranks), you can put your hands down. Let’s GO!
10-01-2023, 04:43 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,055
Originally Posted by Yuko
There is funny rumor going around that we will attempt to do only 3 things to squeeze out a TA1.5 before 31 Dec 2023. The 3 things are increase pay rates, increase retro and soften scope language. I feel confident that if our strategy resembles this funny rumor there will be enough NOs waiting again.
...
...
Even wilder one is power player(s) in our union "falling" into mgt. position(s) with musical chairs, if this plan succeeds, even after the TA1 failure.
Hopefully these rumors don't become facts, as has has happened far too often lately.
10-01-2023, 06:10 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 446
The easiest way to ensure the outcome is to be involved. Stay engaged with the rebuilding of our union, that we can control. Stay focused on Best Value, participate in the survey and take the time to give solid answers. Yes this will take time, effort and energy, but this is the best chance we have had to build our union for the benefit of all members in a long time. If you don't get involved this time, you will only have one person to blame.
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