viking1995

Appreciate any input you guys might have to my dilemma.

I am an older SWA FO with just under 1 year at the company and have about 10-15 years left to fly in the airline industry. I live in an area such that, I will always be commuting.

My goal: A balance of QOL and maximum pay in the short amount of time left to fly.

With my goal in mind my question: Is it better to stay at SWA or take advantage of the hiring at other Legacy aircraft?

Concerns I have with SWA:
- Longer upgrade times (If I stay at SWA, I would probably choose not to upgrade due to the upgrade timing and loss of QOL and with the little time remaining to fly)
- Lack of hiring with the MAX being down

Assume I have CJOs from all the airlines out there (I'm focusing on United and Delta).

Anyone have any thoughts, experience with this decision?

Any tools website out there to help me make the decision?

Appreciate the help.

flyguy81

I just got done playing with widgetseniority.com. Take out NYC and it’s around 5-6 years to upgrade. Upgrade at SWA will prob wind down to 6-8 depending on DOH.

You’ll likely never see left seat in a WB. So do you want to retire as a NB CA or WB FO? The Max will be back this year. How long before they’re all back and we’re back to status quo is debatable.

Look at myseniority and widgetseniority and you can compare the two. I’d imagine UAL is pretty similar to Delta in terms of seniority progression.

Sniper66

He should go to EK to fly the shiny jet
Don’t you think R
Haha

DownAndDirty

You say you have just under a year at SW, so let's call it a year for math's sake. If you have a CJO (not sure if this was hypothetically or you actually have one), once you accept and actually get a class date could be several months down the road. If you don't have a CJO, then you have to factor in the time of applying, getting interviewed, getting the CJO, etc.

I'm not sure how backed up Delta was with classes, but last I heard from some buddies, it was 6+ months (my gouge could be old). If this is still true, once you're on property, you're talking about a minimum of ~18 months from your original SWA hire date. So any benefit you might get from an early upgrade could be a wash.

Guys like to point out your seniority when you retire, but I honestly don't care what number I'll be on my last day. What will my last 3-5 years look like? I can't speak for everyone, but at 38 years old now, I value QoL over pay, so I can only imagine that gap will get even larger the older I get. I don't really care if I can barely hold WB CA at 63 yrs old because my QoL will probably suck. What company will give me the greatest flexibility to add/drop/trade etc that will allow me to live the life I want to live? That's the company I'd go with. Seniority obviously plays a huge role there, but there are scheduling and work rule differences that come into play too.

I'd stick it out if I were you but it's not a bad problem to have. Good luck!

O2pilot

Guys hired today at United will need 14 years to make 777 Captain, so you probably don’t have enough time unless we get 50+ more WB planes. We currently have 7 year 756 Captains. If you are interested in QOL, WBFO is available in your 1st year. NB Captain is 3 years. But it depends on which base you are commuting to, etc. We have lots of WBFO that stay in the seat because they only commute 2 times a month from places like Jackson Hole or Pensacola, etc, so NB CA doesn’t appeal to them.

United hasn’t hit its peak retirement yet. We are only just above 400, but go to over 700 in 7-8 years and retire 500+ a year until 2034.

Good luck, I have a ton of friends at SWA and they all like it there, but most of them live in base, which is the way to go.

DFWEMB

I just though I would throw this out there since I recently had a discussion about someone questioning the exact same thing. The circumstances were similar, 50 y/o less than 1.5 years at SWA. They were looking at Spirit or Frontier possibly for growth and upgrade times.

You might have other priorities in looking toward UAL/DAL, but upgrades at Spirit are currently at 3 to sub 3 year mark. You would end up retiring at the top of the pay scale in the left seat all things equal.

I know things like upgrade time ect can always change and are never guaranteed. I just thought that you might find it useful to research NK or F9 to help add it to the thought process or eliminate them if you haven’t already. There should be good growth happening at both carriers given any unforeseen industry issues/mergers. I’m not a cheerleader for either, like I said just throwing it out there. Good luck!

C2078

I posted a long response to another colleague getting a bit restless with go/stay decision. While I have a little bit more time than 15 years, based on extensive research for myself, if I had 10-15 years left, I would seriously consider UPS (first hand knowledge . With limited time remaining, you will get best bang for your buck. Commuting on your own metal is very easy. Yes, you will fly nights first year or two, but holding at least half days won’t take too long.

Just like Southwest, line bidding, conflict bidding, very good vacation rules. One rate for ALL planes, no need to chase the money. One of the best if not the best health insurance plans at a very reasonable cost, 12% direct contribution PLUS a pension at the end that will most likely be in the $5k per years of service (currently $4.2k) so 15 years will earn you a $75k/year pension for the rest of your life! (By the way, very well funded above the 92% level). Highest domestic AND international per diem, among other things. This is NOT a perfect job to be clear. If I were 40 I would of accepted the Delta job, enough time for DC and PS to catch up, plus better seniority progression.

So from an “old” guy to an “old” guy, stay put or go somewhere where you can maximize QOL and $$$ in the years you have left. At our age, I do not think Delta is the place, and most definitely not because it’s a bad job!! United is probably a better option, and then there’s the completely dysfunctional American (it does have an insane seniority progression looming).

Just my 2 cents.... Good luck amigo!

CLazarus

Honestly, I think the answer depends heavily on EXACTLY where you live. You say you will have to commute regardless. Well, would you be commuting to a very junior UAL/DAL base vs. a senior SWA base? Would the commute to a UAL/DAL base be a lot easier than your SWA commute? Feel free to PM me if you have questions about the commute/seniority of your nearest UAL base.

I live in a junior SWA base and would have taken the job at SWA if I'd been offered one there first. However, I have an easy commute to a junior UAL base and have not looked back since getting hired 5 years ago. In my case, the potential earnings/advancement at UAL have helped me be at ease with the commute, and I'm now relatively senior in my NB base. I could have bid to widebody FO a couple of years back and I'm now able to bid NB CA as well. I'd still be on reserve in both cases, but not too much longer though I think as a WB FO. I've gotten senior enough and proficient enough at trip trading that my NB pay last year roughly equaled a WB reserve FO, but I got every day off that I wanted plus a commutable schedule that mostly avoided redeyes.

One huge unexpected benefit at UAL for me has been the pass travel benefit. I have a large family and have used it for an average of 5-10k per year in savings while taking my family to see both sets of grandparents, including one set who lives overseas. We get FC seats on these trips sometimes as well. I imagine pass traveling on SWA is far more challenging and stressful (tough to travel with kids when you are the last ones to board). On the other hand, if you are the type who can't stomach being inside an airplane when off duty, UA pass travel understandably won't appeal to you.

Anyways, SWA has long been a great company and you can't really go wrong staying there. But, if the commute would be a lot easier, and seniority/benefits better then perhaps jumping ship would make sense.

hindsight2020

As someone not interested in pursuing the career for more than 12ish years, I'm also interested in this topic. Specifically I wonder if, commuting burdens (or lack thereof) being equal for the sake of argument, if the pay and size structure of an LCC would be preferable to a large legacy. I wonder if such a generalization would be valid. Or is it immaterial to the QOL hunt, especially in the context of expedited timeline to being able to drop work. Would smaller seniority lists be more or less suited to this end?

navigatro

if you want max $$$ then go to the company that offers highest pay and/or quickest upgrade.

if you want QOL do not commute.

hopefully you can get both!