MEC at AOC on 8/24

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08-27-2023, 03:53 AM

#21

JustInFacts

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Joined APC: Aug 2023

Posts: 300

Quote:

Originally Posted by threeighteen

Money can be recovered with retro pay. Give away QOL/retirement and it’s gone forever.

Yeah, let's fix this retro crap as well. I'm tired of subsidizing others retro. We need 100% retro based on actual hours of pay and the actual pay rate that pilots were at for the amendable period. Not this crap where a pilot on 3rd year WB FO pay gets the same retro as a pilot that has been in the same WB seat for 6 years and is on 10 year pay. Same for the captain that upgraded 5 months ago. Why should a 6 year WB captain who has been in the seat for 5 months get the same retro as a 15+ WB captain who has been in the seat for 5+ years.

08-27-2023, 03:58 AM

#22

JustInFacts

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Posts: 300

Quote:

Originally Posted by threeighteen

The retirement solution is simple. 230k pension for everyone and 12% DC with cash over cap. Anything that doesn’t have cash over cap is a non starter.

Another post that shows people don't understand compounding returns. So, someone with 3 years on the property should get to have 22 years of a 12% DC plan with CoC while a pilot with 24 years on the property should get the same $230,000 pension and 1 year of the increased DC plan? Yeah, that's fair and just shows that this is a money grab from the junior pilots from the senior pilots. How much do you think increasing the pension from $130,000 per year to $230,000 per year would cost? I know, it's the me and now generation.

08-27-2023, 05:43 AM

#23

OpusOne

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Joined APC: Mar 2021

Posts: 16

So within a :05 span you don't want to subsidize "others" retro pay, yet you seemingly think you're entitled to additional retirement compensation because you won't get the same time-value of money if the DC is increased to 12%?

Last edited by OpusOne; 08-27-2023 at 06:13 AM.

08-27-2023, 06:12 AM

#24

Jamo

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Joined APC: Mar 2021

Posts: 174

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustInFacts

Spoken like somebody who flew their asx off during negotiations.
How about this, each group gets the same ratio cut like was proposed, except those that flew draft/VOL gets that hourly amount subtracted from theirs and put into the pool of everyone else. Since you already got yours.

08-27-2023, 06:32 AM

#25

TomAce

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Joined APC: Apr 2023

Posts: 139

Quote:

Originally Posted by threeighteen

An even smaller amount of QOL can be replaced with money. You’ll ultimately have less money, less experiences, and less things if you give up QOL for money.

The retirement solution is simple. 230k pension for everyone and 12% DC with cash over cap. Anything that doesn’t have cash over cap is a non starter. Giving up the pension for new-hires is a nonstarter. Not improving the B plan is a nonstarter.

If we push forward yet another deal that screws our junior pilots, it will fail.

I voted against the TA. But there's no way the pension will be increased to 230k. That's adding over a million dollars to each pilots retirement account at DOS. Also by the way there are serious downsides to the pension. Like bankruptcy. Go to the PBGC website and figure out how much of that 230k would be insured. Spoiler, it's not much. I hope we don't waste three years trying to get a crazy pension increase that will never happen.

TA1's retirement wasn't bad. It needed cash over cap. It's now the norm at the airlines. But having an account that is yours if you die before retirement is a great option.

08-27-2023, 07:04 AM

#26

Westerner

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Joined APC: Jun 2013

Posts: 184

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustInFacts

Why are you entitled to more money for prior years when those previous payrates and retirement benefits were negotiated and agreed to by the pilots with the company?

Wouldn't the time to negotiate the increased benefits/payrates for those years been during the negotiations for those specific contracts?

08-27-2023, 08:21 AM

#27

CloudSailor

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Joined APC: Dec 2006

Posts: 2,057

Thanks for posting the bullet points of the 11 out of 11 DAYtime meetings scheduled by our union to meet with their clear target audience, not us night hub-turning chumps.

Did our MEC happen to mention if our NC is continuing negotiations behind the scenes for a TA1.5?

Were they asked about the NC resigning as they had agreed?

Makes one wonder... Could the MEC/NC have a plan they are not sharing with us?

The hubturn meeting sounds like our current union leadership who negotiated the colossal failure that was TA1 is expecting to negotiate TA1.5.

08-27-2023, 08:30 AM

#28

JustInFacts

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Joined APC: Aug 2023

Posts: 300

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpusOne

Who said anything about being entitled to additional retirement. Do you even understand retirement funding? Why do you think that past contracts have had additional money for those over 54 or 55 and not this one? It was to partially make up for the difference in DC plan contributions over their career. Do you think it was just coincidence that the six year contract had additional money for those 54 and older and the 5 year contract in 2006 had additional money for those 55 and older? I weep for our future given the intellect of some on here.

08-27-2023, 08:35 AM

#29

JustInFacts

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Joined APC: Aug 2023

Posts: 300

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamo

I bet I haven't flown any more draft in 15+ years here than you have in the time you have been here. And your argument about draft is the reason I said hours, not based off of compensation they earned. So, if a pilot dropped all of their trips and only flew draft for a year, and the hours they picked up at draft were 800 hours, they would only get the retro for those 800 hours, not the 150% they made at draft.

Sounds to me like you are making a money grab. You want more than you earned and are willing to take it from others. Nice!!!!