So have you talked to anyone on the MEC that you do trust about the value of our contract? Ask TC or CT if we got 3.8 billion in value, Our old MEC just chose to put the money in the wrong place. We spent too much of our gains on the a plan.

 

I disagree. There is money for it all. The a plan has not been increased in a decade! Hello. FDX has the money for the A plan at $170K per year and $450 an hour.

 

Yes there is more money. We have always said we wanted Delta plus a nickle, we were offered Delta plus 25% and now you want Delta plus 75% or more. What world are you living in?

That would be called bargining in bad faith and the NMB would laugh in our face. We need to be realistic in what we ask for.

 

False. What world are you living in?

 

Delta's contract is worth 23 billion over 4 years to 14000 pilots. Our TA was worth 12.5 billion to 5800 pilots. Do the simple math. Delta's contract is worth 411K per pilot per year. Our TA was worth 539K per pilot per year.
539/411 is 1.31%. The same actuaries at ALPA costed our TA along with Delta and United contracts, and we didn't believe the numbers so we hired an indapendant actuary and they came up with the same number.

We got more money than Delta, a lot more. Our old MEC just spent the money on the deferred compensation of the a plan. The pension benefit obligation is 4 to 1. Every dollar that we get the company has to put 4 away in the PBO. If we get a pension increase worth 100 million it costs the company half a billion.

 

Sounds like we should just trash the A plan then I guess.

No, I don't actually want to do that. But stop pretending that TA1 was anything other than a **** sandwich for anyone with 10+ years left in their career. Yeah, the guys about to walk out the door with their bags of money would've made out pretty good I guess.

 

Just wondering where those numbers came from.

TA Executive Summary had it similar, but different:

"The TA released today for your consideration achieves that goal. We attained an industry leading agreement that is valued at $3.8 billion. The negotiated value of this TA makes it the single largest contract ever bargained at our property and surpasses the total (inflation adjusted) value of all three of our ALPA contracts combined. The duration is 4.5 years with a 150-day opening window. The chart below illustrates this comparison to our previous contracts:

On a per pilot basis, this TA has the highest value achieved among major carriers in the last twenty years. Valued over four years, our TA is approximately worth $609,000 per pilot. Based on public information, the American Airlines AIP is approximately worth $526,000 per pilot and the Delta Agreement is approximately worth $480,000 per pilot."

 

Im a 22 year guy that voted no. Would I have liked a big bump in retirement, you bet, but I was not willing to f--- over the rest of our union to get that. I think there were too many givebacks to QOL issues. I also believe all of that stems from pushing so hard for an A plan bump that is just too expensive. In order to get that bump we had to give up so much to me it wasn't worth it.

I have been planning on a 130 pension since I started. Anybody that has been here long enough to be close to retirement should have been planning the same, if not they are fools playing craps "Betting on the come" is a terible retirement plan. Our Retirement package is more than just the A Plan and it has been improved with every contract. We have gone from a $500 cash match in our 401K to 6% to 9%, that is a huge increase in retirement value.

When people say we are screwing the old guys if we don't get an A plan bump, as an old guy I disagree. What is screwing all of us is an A plan bump that is so large it caused the TA to fail.

In the Air Force we had a saying about new jets, You could have good, fast, or cheap. Pick 2. I believe that is where we are right now. we can have industry leading Pay including retro, better QOL, or pension. Pick 2. I think we can have Pay, QOL and a B fund bump with cash over cap for the cost of the A plan increase. Thats my choice.

 

OK. So I rounded off and used numbers that I tried to remember from the roadshow instead of looking them up. My bad. Those numbers come from the actuarial people that work for Alpa. The same people at ALPA cost every ALPA contract and for non alpa carriers, AA and SWA they hire Alpa to do there costing because it is the gold standard.

Those numbers are not just made up by Pat May just to look good. That is the value to us as pilots. I can't say this enough, our MEC just chose to spend the money in the wrong place.

 

I think most of the crew force would be for that. Unfortunately, only 600 of us are going to get a shot to voice our opinions on the matter. Why not an online survey just like Scope, so everyone gets a chance.