Worth staying?
01-07-2024, 11:45 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2023
Posts: 174
Originally Posted by ogarmyopar
that’s completely false I have buddies there that got hired 2 years ago that won’t see wb ca until the tail end of their career in a decent base nyc a bit sooner. Getting hired now almost certainly guarantees no wb ca but you can still get awarded nb ca in less than 2 years
Originally Posted by IFartInYourSeat
Nuts that you can get NB CA at UAL. I’m in the same boat as OP that I’m junior, looking at watching the pension get stripped away with a divided retirement group, and NB future. I got a CJO and class date in less than a month. I’m looking for FDX to make one good move to galvanize my trust in them… but it’s just miss after miss when looking at management decisions.
Originally Posted by C2078
People stuck with this “I was hired in blah blah blah” mentality truly don’t understand that Fedex is going through a major transformational change in how it thinks and operates. The days of “love to fly airplanes” are gone. The OpEd has serious and legitimate concerns, although he went to Fedex making assumptions about the future, that is on him. The decline in volume is cyclical, it will rebound, that is not the main source of the root problems for the Fedex pilot group going forward. Yes, they over hired, which exacerbates the problem but should correct eventually. This is a short term problem.
The main problems which will affect the pilots most are the shift to moving the package the cheapest way possible vs mostly flying it, AND the loss of the postal volume, which will basically decimate the day sorts, drastically reduce domestic day flying. While I don’t think Fedex will shrink to the size of UPS, I do think it doesn’t take much to read all the information out there, financial disclosures, etc, to clearly see Express will shrink a fair amount. No one saw coming what UPS just did, offer a buyout to the most expensive pilots in order to rightsize the group. Fedex is acting more like the traditional UPS, fear mongering, scare tactics, trying to get people to leave on their own when it simply won’t happen en mass like they want to unless you incentivize people. A major shift in culture is going on, this is not the lost decade, not 1998, not 2000, not cyclical (not counting volume decline which is).
The junior folks at Fedex are faced with a no win situation. Stay and be stagnated for multiple years (length is anyone’s guess), or go to the big 4 after a major hiring wave and be at risk of any sort of downturn in the world (economy, another pandemic, whatever), plus seniority progression will not be anywhere near like someone hired in 2021, 2022 for example. Plus some may not even want to fly pax.
I have multiple friends at Fedex, two very junior, who don’t plan on leaving ‘cause they are too old and are resigned to the fact of being a permanent FO. The common theme amongst all of them: FDX pilot group is highly dysfunctional, very little unity, senior eat the junior for lunch, no cohesiveness, MEC leadership clueless. They say this is the hardest part to swallow. All the Fred non contractual leniency, kindness basically gone. It’s like working for UPS 🙄.
If you are 45 or younger, very tough decision. If older, you might as well ride it out. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. One thing is clear: the Fred Fedex is gone. There were ups and downs with Fred, good and bad (I would guess mostly good), but the indu bean counter is in charge, with the help of the Atlas butcher, pressured by a board who only cares about money. This is the reality of corporate America, greed, money, profits over anything else. Don’t get me wrong, I am a true capitalist, but I do think the pendulum has swung way too far.
Legitimate concern, tough choice, no win situation. But I will agree, try to be happy even in the worst situations.
The main problems which will affect the pilots most are the shift to moving the package the cheapest way possible vs mostly flying it, AND the loss of the postal volume, which will basically decimate the day sorts, drastically reduce domestic day flying. While I don’t think Fedex will shrink to the size of UPS, I do think it doesn’t take much to read all the information out there, financial disclosures, etc, to clearly see Express will shrink a fair amount. No one saw coming what UPS just did, offer a buyout to the most expensive pilots in order to rightsize the group. Fedex is acting more like the traditional UPS, fear mongering, scare tactics, trying to get people to leave on their own when it simply won’t happen en mass like they want to unless you incentivize people. A major shift in culture is going on, this is not the lost decade, not 1998, not 2000, not cyclical (not counting volume decline which is).
The junior folks at Fedex are faced with a no win situation. Stay and be stagnated for multiple years (length is anyone’s guess), or go to the big 4 after a major hiring wave and be at risk of any sort of downturn in the world (economy, another pandemic, whatever), plus seniority progression will not be anywhere near like someone hired in 2021, 2022 for example. Plus some may not even want to fly pax.
I have multiple friends at Fedex, two very junior, who don’t plan on leaving ‘cause they are too old and are resigned to the fact of being a permanent FO. The common theme amongst all of them: FDX pilot group is highly dysfunctional, very little unity, senior eat the junior for lunch, no cohesiveness, MEC leadership clueless. They say this is the hardest part to swallow. All the Fred non contractual leniency, kindness basically gone. It’s like working for UPS 🙄.
If you are 45 or younger, very tough decision. If older, you might as well ride it out. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. One thing is clear: the Fred Fedex is gone. There were ups and downs with Fred, good and bad (I would guess mostly good), but the indu bean counter is in charge, with the help of the Atlas butcher, pressured by a board who only cares about money. This is the reality of corporate America, greed, money, profits over anything else. Don’t get me wrong, I am a true capitalist, but I do think the pendulum has swung way too far.
Legitimate concern, tough choice, no win situation. But I will agree, try to be happy even in the worst situations.
01-07-2024, 02:09 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 600
For one I don't think you even work at Fedex so all you know is heresy. Were you here during the pre union years when Fred would come and talk to the pilots? Or when we got the RED letter from Fred saying he will do it with us or with out us? Or through the economic downturn and the loss of FE seats when things were stagnant? I did think so. So all you are really sayong is Blah Blah Blah a bunch of crap you don't understand a thing about. So keep talking about how us old guys don't know anything. We know and undrstand a lot more about this business than you will ever know as an outsider.
Fedex goes through a transformational change in every downturn, you just were not here to experience it. We felt it, however we were doing a lot better than the pax carriers so everyone on the outside thought things were all roses. Fedex has always tried to ship things the cheapest way, if you worked here you would see the freight getting loaded into semi's to get trucked especially on two and three day.
Fedex is trying to unwind a lot of the excesses from COVID when they were printing money. What the biggest difference is the postal service trucking more than before.
Management fooled all the new hires and junior with the big bid, gave them all false promises so they would have their blinders on during contract negotiations. The senior pilots new it was BS but the junior latched onto it like the pink pony they are chasing.
So if someone came here and did their homework they would know that the postal contract is up for contract every 5-6 years and we could lose a portion of that business, also they would have known that the COVID excess would not last. Guess what the free money has been spent and people are spending less money on things, which means less manufacturing and production lines that don't need updating. So only looking at our W-2's and listening to all the drfat volunteer stories and fast upgrades you were mislead for the long term.
Of course there are a lot of things that can be improved here. Are we going to get them all at once, no. As for the common theme, that is the common theme during every contract, it is what the company wants and we are stupid enough to give it to them.
You can stay here and try and make it better or you can go somewhere else and take your chances. At least you have an option since everyone is hiring.
Fedex goes through a transformational change in every downturn, you just were not here to experience it. We felt it, however we were doing a lot better than the pax carriers so everyone on the outside thought things were all roses. Fedex has always tried to ship things the cheapest way, if you worked here you would see the freight getting loaded into semi's to get trucked especially on two and three day.
Fedex is trying to unwind a lot of the excesses from COVID when they were printing money. What the biggest difference is the postal service trucking more than before.
Management fooled all the new hires and junior with the big bid, gave them all false promises so they would have their blinders on during contract negotiations. The senior pilots new it was BS but the junior latched onto it like the pink pony they are chasing.
So if someone came here and did their homework they would know that the postal contract is up for contract every 5-6 years and we could lose a portion of that business, also they would have known that the COVID excess would not last. Guess what the free money has been spent and people are spending less money on things, which means less manufacturing and production lines that don't need updating. So only looking at our W-2's and listening to all the drfat volunteer stories and fast upgrades you were mislead for the long term.
Of course there are a lot of things that can be improved here. Are we going to get them all at once, no. As for the common theme, that is the common theme during every contract, it is what the company wants and we are stupid enough to give it to them.
You can stay here and try and make it better or you can go somewhere else and take your chances. At least you have an option since everyone is hiring.
01-07-2024, 05:33 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Position: 757
Posts: 146
Old guy here, hired at the tail end of the postal contract. Voted no. Almost left myself after 2 and a half years when still on reserve in the back of the 72. Stuck it out mainly because of our A fund. Million dollar difference over my hoped for lifespan if we don't dork it up in TA2.0 and I make it that long (say 85).
I will say this: if there is any way you and your family could tolerate living in domicile for one of the majors you are considering and understand the risk of industry downturns (which you obviously do) then I would seriously consider taking the job and moving to a domicile. Yeah its a risk and the grass isn't always greener, but if you have such concerns (and they are valid) then perhaps you'd be happier on the pax side.
I'm sure its an agonizing time, but as Thrust Hold said this is probably just a blip and in a couple of years things will be on the upswing. With about a year and a half to go, I am content with my decision 20 years ago, but only you can decide for you and your family if you are ready to make that jump.
I wish you the best in your decision and career.
I will say this: if there is any way you and your family could tolerate living in domicile for one of the majors you are considering and understand the risk of industry downturns (which you obviously do) then I would seriously consider taking the job and moving to a domicile. Yeah its a risk and the grass isn't always greener, but if you have such concerns (and they are valid) then perhaps you'd be happier on the pax side.
I'm sure its an agonizing time, but as Thrust Hold said this is probably just a blip and in a couple of years things will be on the upswing. With about a year and a half to go, I am content with my decision 20 years ago, but only you can decide for you and your family if you are ready to make that jump.
I wish you the best in your decision and career.
01-07-2024, 08:25 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,336
Originally Posted by IFartInYourSeat
Nuts that you can get NB CA at UAL. I’m in the same boat as OP that I’m junior, looking at watching the pension get stripped away with a divided retirement group, and NB future. I got a CJO and class date in less than a month. I’m looking for FDX to make one good move to galvanize my trust in them… but it’s just miss after miss when looking at management decisions.
01-07-2024, 08:34 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,336
prolly ought to go
OGARMYOPAR. I think you should bail. All I have seen you post seems to indicate you are unhappy here. There may have been other posts that I haven't seen, but if you are unhappy, you should leave....especially if you think you can do better somewhere else. No one will write you a check at tht end of your career to make you whole for making a decision based on bad advice from them if it doesn't work out. I fear that if you stay, you'll always be wishing you left. Can you give me one positive thing for you about staying?
.
If you are asking for advice about leaving, I think you have an answer. The guys junior to you will thank you. The guys senior to you will wish you well....The company will be glad because it's overmanned. The truth of the matter is, no one other than you cares one way or another.....sad to say it....but true. Make the best decision you can and live with it....
I'm assuming you were a military guy. Even though everyone got off at 2:00pm to attend the retirement ceremony of some really good guy. The ceremony was nice....family came it, beer and cake served afterward, oaths of continued contact and good will are taken.....then its over....the military goes right on without the retiree....and on Monday, you're just another retiree clogging the aisles at the commissary, and nobody notices that you're gone.
.
If you are asking for advice about leaving, I think you have an answer. The guys junior to you will thank you. The guys senior to you will wish you well....The company will be glad because it's overmanned. The truth of the matter is, no one other than you cares one way or another.....sad to say it....but true. Make the best decision you can and live with it....
I'm assuming you were a military guy. Even though everyone got off at 2:00pm to attend the retirement ceremony of some really good guy. The ceremony was nice....family came it, beer and cake served afterward, oaths of continued contact and good will are taken.....then its over....the military goes right on without the retiree....and on Monday, you're just another retiree clogging the aisles at the commissary, and nobody notices that you're gone.
01-07-2024, 11:29 PM
#57
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Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,236
Originally Posted by Cocoloco
AAL is telling new hires that they will be WB CA within 5 years.
01-08-2024, 03:23 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 507
Originally Posted by Laughing_Jakal
military goes right on without the retiree....and on Monday, you're just another retiree clogging the aisles at the commissary, and nobody notices that you're gone.
Originally Posted by Globemaster2827
There's a ton of luck involved in all of this and it's never as good or as bad as it seems.
To the OP, I get your frustration. Get the timing wrong (bad luck) and there can be a lot of second guessing and regret. Honestly, pick one, do the job to the best of your ability, fly with some great people, and know that you still have one of the best jobs on the planet. When I stop and really think about it, I'm still amazed at the work:reward ratio you're able to achieve with this career.
01-08-2024, 03:37 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,228
Even with my mind virus, I can still remember sitting beside the pool at the Amerisuites off 36th Street in Miami in 1999. I was at Gemini.
I was emoting over my career choices. None of them were all that good.
A wise old captain - Vietnam vet, had flown for three other cargo carriers, another nasty Boomer - took a sip of his gin and tonic and said, "You know, someday you'll realize, what matters is this: your friends and your family. That's it."
I'm guessing that if you're unhappy doing night hubturns, you'll be unhappy flying 4-leg days in a 717. But what do I know.
I was emoting over my career choices. None of them were all that good.
A wise old captain - Vietnam vet, had flown for three other cargo carriers, another nasty Boomer - took a sip of his gin and tonic and said, "You know, someday you'll realize, what matters is this: your friends and your family. That's it."
I'm guessing that if you're unhappy doing night hubturns, you'll be unhappy flying 4-leg days in a 717. But what do I know.
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