Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 3855448)

When you only look at UAL to make your point, yes, I call that cherry picking. On the other hand, I've the one who has given a good faith effort to show the other legacy plans as well. I would include UPS as well but so far I have found zero information from their plan. Although I suspect theirs is worse than FDX. I don't have the APA contract either but I do have their TA summary their BOD wrote. I'm not sure why that isn't good enough for you now despite you saing earlier you were taking my word for it before I mentioned where I got their information. In any case, its insurance. Not everyone will use it but when you need it, you will be glad its there. Every carrier has some form of LTD plan, so no use going over how many pilots are on it to make some other point to belittle it. The three legacies all improved their plan on the last round, presumably because they felt it was important enough to do so.

As for Delta minimum, yes, you get 83.33 hours per month at first year FO rate.

You seem to be taking it personal with your passive aggressive manner of replying. I'm simply trying to make a fair comparison. And each time you make a point, I modify the comparison.

Delta: 50% no cap / no cost / workers comp offset / DC 2X the benefit amount / min. payment floor

United: 50% cap $14,913.23 / 25% premium cost / United work offset / DC 2X the benefit amount

American: 50% no cap / no cost / no offsets / DC based on average monthly compensation

FedEx: 60% cap $17,500, then 50% cap after 24 months $14,583.33 / no cost / offsets / Pension YOS credit

Originally Posted by JustInFacts (Post 3855560)

Who's being passive agressive???? LOL!!!

I have stated that I am not trying to make it black and white, yet you seem to imply that you are the only one making an honest effort.

You claim I am cherry picking, but have only provided example from two contracts that you have read. You mention UPS, but are sure theirs is worse than ours, yet we are still woefully behind. I show that we aren't woefully behind 50% of the contracts that either you or I have read.

By the way, you are still wrong on Delta. There is no minimum. It isn't first year pay times 83.3. They determine your average earnings if you have less than 365 days by multiplying first year pay by 1000, and then they get 50% of that. If you have 365 days and worked less than 1000 hours, you get 50% of what you worked at first year pay, so you can get less than that.

Originally Posted by JustInFacts (Post 3855560)

Who's being passive agressive???? LOL!!!

I have stated that I am not trying to make it black and white, yet you seem to imply that you are the only one making an honest effort.

You claim I am cherry picking, but have only provided example from two contracts that you have read. You mention UPS, but are sure theirs is worse than ours, yet we are still woefully behind. I show that we aren't woefully behind 50% of the contracts that either you or I have read.

By the way, you are still wrong on Delta. There is no minimum. It isn't first year pay times 83.3. They determine your average earnings if you have less than 365 days by multiplying first year pay by 1000, and then they get 50% of that. If you have 365 days and worked less than 1000 hours, you get 50% of what you worked at first year pay, so you can get less than that.

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 3855889)

I'm still looking for the IPA contract …

Originally Posted by FTv3 (Post 3856407)

Ive only been loosely following this thread, I can look it up but what specific topic are you guys discussing?

Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 3856414)

Disability benefits.

https://i.imgur.com/HJDxmYw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6E7DkpR.jpg
Basically we burn sick time for 6 months as part of STD, then go on company-provided Loss of Licence from months 7-24, then month 25+ are on LTD.

I currently pay $175/check for the IPA Mutual Aid Program that covers the balance between STD/LOL benefit and full guarantee at my longevity. I also pay $248/check for voluntary LTD coverage that IPA offers through The Standard that provides $20k/mo tax free through age 65 (though there is a pension offset starting at 60). I also have an external $157/mo policy through Peterson that provides $4k+/mo supplemental loss of license income above and beyond all the above programs.

Originally Posted by Viper25 (Post 3856430)

A little outdated for the pax side. Delta's recent contract eliminated the 30-month/54-month lifetime max restriction on eligibility for psychiatric disabilities. Psychiatric disabilities now treated the same as physical disability. Also the aforementioned new disability floor isn't in the graphic. Can't speak to the other airlines. I do understand this post was mainly for the UPS stuff. Just wanted to clarify in case eyes wandered to the other companies.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3856479)

Delta disability also includes profit sharing which can provide a substantial boost to payouts if there was a good PS check in the previous 3 years.

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 3855448)

As for Delta minimum, yes, you get 83.33 hours per month at first year FO rate.

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 3855889)

Lastly, the Delta PWA says, "For any pilot whose Disability Event Date occurs during their first 365 days of employment, their Final Average Earnings calculation will be no less than 83.33 hours per month (1,000/year) at the first-year first officer composite hourly rate of pay under Section 3 B. 2." I'm not sure where I was wrong unless I miswrote something because the way it is written in their contract is the way I understood it to begin with.

Originally Posted by Viper25 (Post 3855623)

From the Delta Negotiator's Notepad before ratification:

"This agreement establishes a minimum monthly disability benefit based on FAE calculation equivalent to no less than 83.33 hours/months (1000 hours annual) pay at applicable 1st year FO pay rate. The minimum monthly disability benefit on March 2, 2023 will be $4,514/month, or $54,170/year. Any pilot currently on disability who became disabled in their first 365 days of employment will have their benefit adjusted up to the new floor, if it is currently less."

Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 3856506)

I've looked at other properties contract comparasons, and they aren't always exactly accurate or leave out substantial details, or minor details that are important.

The other problem is that contract terms or conditions don't necessarily translate 1 to 1. To be fair, you simply can't capture all of the nuance in a 2"x1" box.

For example:

Reserve Premium
DELTA: Reserves can pick up premium trips on days off which pay over the reserve guarantee*

Someone might look at that and say "eh, what's so special about that?" without bothering to read the footnote, or whoever did the research for it missed it or just didn't think it was important.

In this case, the * = "pilot receives 9/13 hours off plus day off back, or banked if no days off remaining".

Even with this detail, unless you're dialed completely into the Delta contract, you wouldn't understand how payback days work, or how valuable they can be.