I used to fly CGN-CDG-MUC-FRA frequently in the 777. I think we stopped doing that pairing some time ago in the 777 (the last time I flew it was 2020). I think the main reason for the pairing was to get the airplane in place in FRA for the Tuesday night flight back to MEM from FRA. I had the Station Manager in MUC give a "tour" to potential customers one afternoon in MUC and he told me one of the main things we shipped out of MUC were BMW car keys............who knew so many people lost their BMW keys?

I'm not here to sell or argue with anybody about anything.

All I know is FDX ALPA pilots evidently will not be performing intra-Europe flying moving forward based on multiple stories in the media, while UPS IPA pilots will continue to perform intra-Europe flying at historical levels.

Given UPS has a LONG history of pushing the limits of collective bargaining agreements and beating on employees for sport, it is unbelievable that they'd make a choice to continue having IPA pilots ($) flying Browntails ($) to move volume they had the right to outsource. Given that has not occurred, perhaps our international scope isn't quite as weak and unenforcable as some FDX pilots evidently seem to believe. Is our international scope language a panacea for FDX pilots? No absolutely not...but perhaps it is a place to start before tailoring to your specific needs? After all, if our international scope wasn't worth the paper it was written on why has UPS honored it and why would FDX refuse to agree to it?

The FDX MEC met with the IPA EB a few weeks ago, I'm fairly sure this was a topic discussed.

Regardless, I sincerely hope FDX pilots are able to recapture the intra-European flying they have previously performed.

If you're not picking up more volume in MUC and dropping it in FRA then it's not cabotage as I understand it.
Legal to leave CDG, drop volume in MUC and then continue to FRA with the rest of it.

You make a fair point, thanks for sharing the information and perspective. I certainly hope that it was discussed and the MEC will offer our membership the what’s what. Honestly, the whole “scope thing” came out of nowhere. Just fell out of the sky at the 11th hour. It was something that “the young crowd” was highly concerned about, and the grey beards…..scope? Never heard of it. For the most part. Now, it’s certainly possible, if not likely that the younger crowd was on to something that the older crowd was whistling past. It’s also possible that it’s mostly a boogeyman that has thrown a nuclear bomb into our negotiations progress. What is absolutely true, and regrettable, is that the concerns were largely ignored by the previous NC and MEC. It was dismissed as sort of “those silly kids” and that was a colossal mistake. And now we’re all paying for it. The young crowd wants their purple ponies and they’re going to hold their breath and stomp their feet until the company provides them. The old guys are too old for ponies, and want a pension bump. The rest of us understand these positions, but mostly just want a fair pay increase and to have to work as little as possible. We’re well past cost neutral to the corporation at this point, and they are laughing at us all.

Most sane post of the contract!

Fedex ALPA pilots will still be performing intra-Europe flying, just not currently in the 757.

I haven't heard anyone state that your scope isn't worth the paper it is written on. They, myself included, have simply stated that it isn't as air tight as some make it out to be. Without knowing the details of the agreements Fedex had to make to get EU authorization for the TNT purchase, how can you say the same wouldn't have happened to you? After 9/11, you lost a route for over 15 years before getting it back.

I appreciate the clarification about continued intra-Europe flying on 767s, just not 757s.

As for CGN-IST-TLV, yes that went away in the early 2000s for crewmember safety following multiple terrorist events, and we had to negotiate its return to us in Contract 2016. We were doing that flying prior to the 2023 Israel-Hamas war, but TLV has been temporarily subcontracted to MNG for crewmember safety following repeated rocket attacks of Tel Aviv - we continue to operate to IST. As for the return of TLV flying to us, not sure when that will happen. It looks like FDX is also currently subcontracting CDG-TLV.

He’s out in medical, but he’s also gotta be getting close to retirement. Most folks just used to move his stickers to the lav.

1. The crews that were flying those lines up until now can tell you the weights. They have even spoken of station management with concerns that the 737's cannot handle the capacity.

2. Ask somebody who cares. We are negotiating our contract. I gave an example of language that is currently in use. Anything is possible (within the bounds of law) in a contract - it's just words.

You are welcome to self-limit and quit before you start. You, Max, and Stan have made it clear that you have done just that.

1. So you don't have a verifiable source, only rumor. Hmmm?

2. No, you posted that in response to Max asking for a solution. So are you now saying that you don't think that is a solution?

I am not self limiting, just making choices based on facts. I have stated that I was against TA23. It seems that you want to make decisions based on rumor and emotion. That is your choice. Personally, I think this fight requires more than an inflatable rat to win!