Originally Posted by Lowslung

Your tailwheel example brings up some interesting points: While not considered a “flawed” design, when is the last time you saw one in a rental or training fleet, or even in a flying club? (Yes, I realize there are some out there, but they are very few & far between). Why is that? Because they require extra training and are notoriously difficult to insure due to their much higher rate of accidents & incidents. They are simply mishandled too often for those types of operators to take on that level of risk.

Originally Posted by Lowslung

I understand that operators like FedEx & UPS have training programs that can be designed & continuously adjusted to mitigate some of the risk that comes with operating a ‘unique’ design like the MD11. Those programs have generally served them well, although the MD11 fleets at both airlines seem to have continued to have more than their share of incidents. Combine that with the fact that these airplanes have become increasingly more difficult and expensive to maintain, have had restrictions placed on them at international locations due to reliability concerns and noise, are a design from a dead manufacturer that conform to neither Boeing or Airbus design philosophy & thus require more training for transitioning pilots, are less efficient & now two generations behind currently offered airframes in the class, and you start wondering why on earth top tier operators like Fex & UPS still want to fly them. Personally, I think it’s time to take the hint & retire them.

Originally Posted by Freighthumper

As much as management would like to pay us like we’re a flight school, our experience level is one that can be trained to operate just about any aircraft ever made. You can’t really compare us to renter, flight schools or flying clubs.


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I agree, they need to be replaced. But with what? There is nothing in production, or available for conversion, that will do what the 11 will do. Not to mention, as Max pointed out, they’re probably mostly paid for as well. I bet management would love to have a replacement that would fill the gap.

I think they are gonna be forced to take something that as close as they can get at this point though. I’m sure this is no surprise to them. It’s probably why they wanted student lines. For all the new training that’s gonna be announced as soon as TA27 is signed.

Originally Posted by Lowslung

Valid & to your point about new aircraft availability: decisions should have been made five or ten years ago. Not sure how it goes at FedEx, but UPS continues to deny re-scheduling premiums explicitly due to the MD being removed from service. I think at Brown we’re about to find out just where the line between “unforeseeable act of god” and “**** poor prior planning” is.

Originally Posted by Lowslung

Your tailwheel example brings up some interesting points: While not considered a “flawed” design, when is the last time you saw one in a rental or training fleet, or even in a flying club? (Yes, I realize there are some out there, but they are very few & far between). Why is that? Because they require extra training and are notoriously difficult to insure due to their much higher rate of accidents & incidents. They are simply mishandled too often for those types of operators to take on that level of risk. I understand that operators like FedEx & UPS have training programs that can be designed & continuously adjusted to mitigate some of the risk that comes with operating a ‘unique’ design like the MD11. Those programs have generally served them well, although the MD11 fleets at both airlines seem to have continued to have more than their share of incidents. Combine that with the fact that these airplanes have become increasingly more difficult and expensive to maintain, have had restrictions placed on them at international locations due to reliability concerns and noise, are a design from a dead manufacturer that conform to neither Boeing or Airbus design philosophy & thus require more training for transitioning pilots, are less efficient & now two generations behind currently offered airframes in the class, and you start wondering why on earth top tier operators like Fex & UPS still want to fly them. Personally, I think it’s time to take the hint & retire them.

Originally Posted by Precontact

Great analysis and I agree but both companies are sort of cheap, so you know what that means!

Originally Posted by Atlasvet

Fedex CFO announced that they expect the MD11 to return to service starting May 2026.

Originally Posted by Freighthumper

I agree, they need to be replaced. But with what? There is nothing in production, or available for conversion, that will do what the 11 will do. Not to mention, as Max pointed out, they’re probably mostly paid for as well. I bet management would love to have a replacement that would fill the gap.

Originally Posted by HoursHore

Parking spots is the issue. I’m sure at some point they’ll figure it out, but right now you can fit 600000lbs of md 11 payload in 420000lbs of 77f spots. Also they’d have to redo entire sections on the mem ramp. Not insurmountable, esp if fuel gets to be an issue again, or a permanent grounding, but that’s what has kept the 777 from being a one for one replacement in the past.

Originally Posted by Atlasvet

Fedex CFO announced that they expect the MD11 to return to service starting May 2026.