No, there is no 100% vacation buy back in the contract.

If you are referring to when the company solicits for pilots to sell back their vacation, that is a different story. First, the company doesn't publish how many vacation slots they are buying back. Next, voluntary vacation sell back goes in seniority order, but the company can elect to buy back an instructors vacation over a senior line pilot in the same seat. Finally, there is no guarantee that the company will buy back vacation in any month. So saying that you can sell back 100% of your vacation isn't true for probably 90%+ of the crew force.

90%+ of the crew force is probably limited to the current 40% end of year buyback. The new TA allows the company to arbitrarily increase that by 50%. Talk about handing them another manning manipulation tool.

You are correct. There is no 100% vacation buyback in the contract. The ability to get to sell back of 100% can be done….not that hard. Several different ways to do it. One easy example is to bid ALL of you vacation in one month (say Feb)…..*poof* 100% paid. There are other ways as well. My point being no reason to hyperventilate about something we can already do.

If you bid all of your vacation in a month and then bid a VTO, yes, you can get paid for all of that vacation that month. That counts against your BLG. If that amount is high enough that adding any trips would put you above the max BLG that month, you won't get any trips on your line. In that instance, you are using your vacation, not selling it back. Yes, you can decide to reduce your vacation footprint and then pick up trips, but you still haven't sold back any vacation. There is a difference between using your vacation and selling it back. If you are a regular line holder or reserve line holder, you only get paid for the work days you remove. The rest will remain in your bank until the end of the year subject to the 40% limit or used on a VTO later in the year. You also have to be able to hold vacation every week in that month. So, how else can a pilot easily sell back 100% of their vacation, because what you described isn't selling 100% back.

I'm not saying this is a reason to vote no, but it may have the same effect that the TC4 say that the student line agreement may have.

I think the details really aren’t that important on how to get paid for 100% of your vacation…..unless of course you’re one of “those guys”….I just think the amount of elevation that ensued was disproportionate to the actual issue. In any given year I could work it out so that I get paid 100% of my vacation…..and still work each month if I elected to.

Students lines…..another issue where the panic doesn’t level with reality. Is it a concession-indeed. But that’s how negotiations work. We get some, we give some…..I’ve yet to see a contract where we got to publish our demands and we simply litigated the things we want. How far down the seniority list do you think you would have to go offering pilots 125% this month instead of 100%…..my guess is not very far. I can hear the “Industry Standard” argument already….fully understand it.

Any contract negotiated between two parties involves some concessions…..we just need to decide if the gains are worth the concessions. Is it reasonable to assume a contract with pay below our peers with more concessions will pass…I don’t believe it will.

Would a contract that pays commensurate to our peers….which contains the above concessions pass. Well I guess that’s where we all have to weigh it out n vote on it.

Respectfully submitted. Ape

Ape using common sense on APC is going to get thrashed.

But before JustInFacts gets crazy and comes at him I'm going to step up and say: At this point the TA comes down to SHOW ME THE MONEY!

GOT SCOPE? -NOPE- The company does what it wants. Student Lines? Like 5 people will be bothered by this.

Got 5 Years on a 2015 pay rate in a 30% inflationary consumer economy? -YUP-

Let's vote NO and show them we've got FIGHT!!!! 5 More Years! 5 More Years! 2015 pay rates FOR LIFE!!!

-Bubs

And I can predict the ones who would jump on it!

(Although, I can't see their calendars)

Two things working against your argument. The first is that in December of 2022 the pilots at Delta reached a TA that set the standard for pay and QOL. One major statement caught the attention of those paying attention, “NO CONCESSIONS.” They did not give up a single QOL item for the pay rates in that agreement. The second fact that I think many take issue with here is that the very work rules that were touted as benefits to seniority, like no student lines, and that were enjoyed for decades by pilots nearing retirement, are the work rules we are being told by that same group of pilots “don’t matter.” For decades ALPA has slowly given away work rules in exchange for pay rates while doing nothing to improve the A plan. It’s a lie to say that retirement hasn’t improved since 1999 as the B plan has gradually increased. All that to be said, amazing that suddenly when faced with impending retirement we are told that job protection, work rules, and pay are all things that don’t matter and we should be focused only on retirement. Why didn’t you guys decide to do that 20 years ago? Makes little or no sense to me.

For the record, student lines are industry average at most carriers now in some form or fashion. So is premium pay getting 200%-300%. We are giving up industry leading for less than market value.

What I have seen so far does not tip my vote one way or another. I’ll look at the total value of the deal, once we see it, and if it meets the threshold to get my yes then I’ll vote yes. I didn’t want to vote no on the TA in 2023. I didn’t feel like I had a choice because the deal was so bad.

So far I’ve seen some strike outs, a few solid doubles, and a single or two. Waiting for 1, 3, and 28 to be shown and then we will see. 3 better be a solid home run. That would mean 3 must be industry pay rates with a snap up since the missteps of ALPA has cost us an entire negotiating cycle.

If that doesn't sum it up I don’t know what does.

I wanted to retire at FDX but after seeing that TA I knew it was going to be a multi-decade battle that we’d never win.

What guys fail to acknowledge is the Delta contract opened as COVID slammed them. If COVID furloughed 3,000-4,000 pilots from EVERY legacy there would be NO debate on TA23. It would been monumental gains for FEDEX pilots. But that didn't happen. The government bailouts allowed Delta and the Legacies to turbocharge their product into the premium EXPERIENCE travel segment that COVID lockdown work at home people were dying to live. They also signed MASSIVE Credit Card deals that stripped the LOW COST CARRIER'S grip on the economy segment. The Legacy's now offer way too many amenities in lounges and destinations associated with their rewards programs that the LCC's are in BIG trouble. Especially after they were all forced to capitulate into Delta narrobody pay scales to stay competitive with labor.

HOWEVER, we at FedSux DID NOT see this boom or game changer in our cargo landscape. IN FACT we saw a reaction from management to CUT $6 Billion from the company cost structure. I keep hearing concessions but how can you concede to something you NEVER had. Oh we're giving upi premium pay and blah blah. We never had it structured the way the Legacy's do. Thats not a concession. GOT SCOPE? We're conceding! Are we? Cause there pretty much is NO international Scope. Never was.

Standby for $5-7 a gallon jet-fuel. How's that going to look to Delta's financials when they're budgeted at $3 a gallon? Its going to hurt FedEx too but not the way the Pax Carriers are susceptible at this point in the market. Talk about negotiation position power now?

We need to sign a deal tomorrow. Not in a year or when JG comes back to save us.

-Bubs

Not sure that any of this has a point? How they got there really doesn't matter. We live in a world of pattern bargaining and expectations because we have the same job and are represented by the same labor union. There is a market for our skillset, period.