Just voicing my opinion here just like everyone else. I keep,seeing this vociferous attack to burn the house down and jump into the unknown. I can't get get by the question, " have we ever voted a forwarded TA down here, and what were the results?" ANS: Yes we have in 1995. The result, ALPA1 dissolved, FPA instituted, we languished for four years and a parking lot deal was signed in 1999. Folks, after reading this TA, I find it to be a reasonable gain for us in a contest of decades not years. Plus stepping off the edge into the unknown not trusting this Mgmt, and even more importantly not trusting a large block of this Crew Force........Ummm, not for me. Give me the reasonable advancement all day long. Anecdotally, as I make my way around the globe flying my pairings I unofficially have observed 1 no vote for every 4 yesses.........I hope so. Cheers

 

It is your opinion. I and a lot of other people are willing to continue with our current work rules and wait for something better, more concrete. It is not stepping into the unknown, and it is definitely not burning down the house.

 

Anecdotally, I've observed the opposite 1 to 4 ratio. Probably because those flying domestically, hub turning, getting hammered on reserve, involuntarily base replaced, and not approaching retirement don't see the value in the TA. We're not wearing blinders or swayed by the NC/MEC sell job. The minor gains simply don't out weigh the givebacks. We shall see soon.

 

The lack of an improvement in retirement is the one big issue why I won't vote for this TA. I have no desire to burn down the house nor do I have a fear of the unknown. I do know we need improvements to retirement and that affects everyone. To simply not have our retirement keep up with inflation is not acceptable. And the statement of fear of steeping into the unknown is hard to understand. The TA gets voted down and the process continues. Its been stated by the pilot group that pay wasn't the top priority. So why would turning down this TA to seek improvements in our key issue of retirement be so hard? Send it back. There will be changes as there was the last time we sent a TA back. The company wants a settlement or they wouldn't have come to the table finally with an offer. Is it really that hard to stand fast and fight for what we should have? I guess its easier for some to just take the easy way and move on.

 

You missed a few important points there, brother. Yes, we (or our, your and my predecessors) rejected that ALPA TA and went on to form an in-house union that met a need. The pilots weren't ready for ALPA, they needed to learn how to be part of a union, and FPA served that extremely valuable purpose. We matured, FPA produced a TA, and the pilots rejected that as well. Changes were made. PC was fired as Negotiating Committee Chairman, and we moved ahead. Mistakes were made, but lessons were learned as we got our third TA, FPA's 2nd, and ratified it. Ultimately, what we learned through the FPA experience taught us the value of merging with ALPA, so here we are. We've still got a long way to go, but we've come a long, long way in a relatively short period of time. We can point to other pilot groups and admire their cohesiveness and the tight language in their CBAs, but I doubt things looked so rosy when their organization was as young as ours is even now.


There's no stepping off any edge, no dark bottomless pit, no scary unknowns, no boogey man. As the Negotiating Committee Chairman described today at the Roadshow, we'll remain in status quo, we'll contact the mediator, we'll set up meetings, and we'll meet. Meanwhile, all the rules of our current CBA remain in effect, including my Buy-Up plan with the 6% year-over-year cap.

What's scary to me is the blank check I'd have to write to keep that plan in 2017 under the TA.

As far as not trusting a large block of this Crew Force goes, I thought it was a bit ironic that in the time leading up to the convening of this morning's Roadshow, they were displaying a slide show of our one and only picketing event. That was cold, hard evidence that when the chips are down and we're asked, pilots do the right thing. I have confidence that the vast majority of us will do just that -- we just need to be given the opportunity.



Safe travels.






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If the above line doesn't convince you that sometimes the line pilot no vote is the right move, nothing will.

Pipe